[Ian_L]

I played Pacific Dunes a couple years ago in the winter and noticed that many tees were moved, presumably to compensate for the different wind direction at that time of year.  Most noticeable was #4, a long par-4 which plays with the wind in summer and against it in winter. The tees were moved up 40-50 yards, playing just over 400 yards as I recall.

Is this a good practice? On one hand, it allows the hole to be played as it was intended (assuming it was designed with the helping summer wind in mind). With the tee at 450 yards, it would be a short par 5 for me with a 10mph headwind. However, playing the hole as a three-shotter would also be interesting, and from what I remember #4 would provide a strategic layup decision (cozy up to the edge of the ocean, or face a pitch over the dune and bunker to the green).  In fact, that is exactly the way many players would play the 450-yard par 4.

Should the tees be moved to allow the hole to play "as it was intended," or should the golfer be expected to accept no chance at reaching the green on some days?

A more concrete question: does the architect often have a say in these decisions?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Ian - I woud say rarely the architect has the decsion. Mainly when the course opens the responsibilities lie in different quarters. Set up for daily play often only happens in larger events, at most tourneys the set up team move the markers sometimes 50 yards up. When we are working up to a tournament we might mow three different tees just incase. As for daily play I think some players would think it was good and some would not, I guess you have to think if you were playing the Old Course would you want the tees 50 yards forward at holes into the wind or would you just want to play the cards you got dealt. I think you woud get a mixture of opinion.

[Mike Hendren]

Ian, it occurs to me that if the routing is good, what the wind taketh away, it giveth elsewhere.  That is a good thing, turning many holes into half-par +/- holes  and thereby benefiting the more savvy player. 

That said, I think a case can be made for moving up all tees to compensate for dramatically lower seasonal temperatures.

Mike

[Jim_Coleman]

    I believe Pete Dye designed The Ocean Course specifically with the wind in mind.  With all the tees all the way back, I think the course can be stretched to something silly like 7,800 yards.  It is my understanding that the course was not designed to be played at that length, only that it be set up for the appropriate length depending on the wind.  The same hole can play 450 down wind or 350 into the wind with equal difficulty.  That's good design and good course management.

[Mike_Young]

I have a course in Costa Rica, Hacienda Pinilla where the wind is on shore half the year and off shore the other half....most of the holes go away from or toward the ocean so the design is almost 7700 yards if played all the way back on all the tees but this was not intended...it should play around 7000 in either wind direction....I think it is done that way quite often but then somehow the relay gets missed.

[Dan Herrmann]

One thing that our guys do that's really cool is occasionally move a tee forward when there's a strong tailwind.  Why?  It brings a cross-creek into play if you hit a driver.  A nice ode to the course design.

[Ian_L]

I have a course in Costa Rica, Hacienda Pinilla where the wind is on shore half the year and off shore the other half....most of the holes go away from or toward the ocean so the design is almost 7700 yards if played all the way back on all the tees but this was not intended...it should play around 7000 in either wind direction....I think it is done that way quite often but then somehow the relay gets missed.

Mike, thanks a lot for your response. To play devil's advocate, would it not be more interesting if the course played differently in different seasons, rather than compensating by moving tees around?

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I would be in favour of leaving the tees where they are, wind or no wind. It's great fun hitting a driver to a 120 yd hole.

If players are going to struggle to reach a fairway with their drive, then it's reasonable to move them forward. This has been done at the Open Championship.

[Doug Siebert]

Why should you try to make the hole play the same way all the time?  Unless there is a forced carry which may become very difficult for almost everyone in a strong unfavorable wind, I see no reason why you should move the tees up so that a hole that's normally a driver/7 iron for me can be played with the same clubs even when I'm into a 30 mph wind.  When I'm facing that I know the hole is playing more like a par 5 and adjust my play accordingly.  If I really really had to play the hole shorter to compensate, as long as I'm not in a tournament no one is stopping me from just moving up to a different teebox.  Heck, the USGA even provides a way to adjust the course rating for just such a circumstance if I want to be able to post the score.

I do like it when courses will occasionally move the tee markers around (which for me, playing the back tees, pretty much always mean moving up) because it adds variety.  Maybe a par 5 that's normally unreachable for me is brought into reach, or a par 4 playing shorter allows a go at the green or cutting it short over the corner.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Why oh why must we have to dabble? Why do we want to change the concept of the design? For what reason are we even considering, let alone talking about the idea of changing the set-up of existing courses?

Would it be to lessen the challenge? Of not being up to facing the designer’s intent? Have we lost that fundamental part of rising to the task ahead using out skills learnt from many previous encounters with the same forces we seem now reluctant to do battle with again?

I suppose it depends if you regards yourself as Golfers. Golfers are ALWAYS ready to face the Challenge – RIGHT.

Has your resolve weakened over the years. Have you become acclimatised to using carts and aids in assist your game? Has it left you reliant on others or can you grasp with open arms the task, nay challenge the designer and God has set out before you?

Only you can make that decision, but think of the thousands of golfers before you who have faced the same problem but only equipped with Hickory shafted clubs and the Gutty or Haskell ball –  they accepted the challenge - ‘They were golfers’.

Wind, perhaps it’s time to ask why so many play the Links courses in Scotland and why golf was and still is at home on a seaside links – could it have anything to do with the wind?

Whatever, here’s wind in your face.

Melvyn         

[Gary Slatter]

Playing from the same tees in variety of weather conditions is one of golf's subtle joys.  "Last week I hit a 7 iron and today a three wood" is GOLF.  So, tees should not be moved to account for wind. 

[Kevin Lynch]

I would be in favour of leaving the tees where they are, wind or no wind. It's great fun hitting a driver to a 120 yd hole.

If players are going to struggle to reach a fairway with their drive, then it's reasonable to move them forward. This has been done at the Open Championship.

I would agree with Donal - let the wind cause some variety and play differently (unless it makes a forced carry unattainable).

Sometimes, it can just be luck of the draw.  At Whistling Straits, I was surprised how different the wind was from day-to-day (and sometimes from hour-to-hour).  But as Michael Hendren suggested, a good design will provide a balance (wind giveth and taketh away).  WS's figure 8 confirguration seemed to provide that balance.

[Jim Sweeney]

IMO, generally, the tees should not be moved. Exceptions there are, however. Remember Bethpage when the weather turned cold with wind into the tenth tee and players in the US Open couldn't reach the fairway? Could that have been anticipated, the tees should have (and the USGA would have I think) been moved up.

[Niall C]

Playing from the same tees in variety of weather conditions is one of golf's subtle joys.  "Last week I hit a 7 iron and today a three wood" is GOLF.  So, tees should not be moved to account for wind. 

Gary

I couldn't have put it better myself. Clearly several years of drinking Belhaven Best and the odd malt has done wonders for your mind 

As an aside I would also say the same about fairway widths. Some on here want wider fairways for windier sites, I say adapt your game accordingly.

Niall

[Jud_T]

Niall,  I always want wide fairways...   My old club has 4 tee boxes and would set the member's tees each day according to the wind.  Of course, inevitably the wind would shift and you'd end up playing a 440 yard uphill par 4 over water into a 2 club wind...

[Melvyn Morrow]

Niall

And so say all of us (not the Royal 'WE' but my brother and I).

Is it a Scottish thing that having paid good money for a designer we expect to keep the design for a century or two.  Who wants to spend more with modifications, what a waste of money - Adapt is based upon sound Scottish financial procedures - right.

Melvyn

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