The Tournament Ball Played on Monday

[Ian Andrew]

On Monday this week 24 players from the Canadian Tour played the “tournament ball.” I got to see one of the balls and it has nothing on it except a very cryptic code that would be appropriate on the side of a German U-Boat. The ball had nothing that would make it clear who had made it.

24 players played it and had to agree to complete confidentiality on the results. I spoke the next day at a Pro-am and interestingly enough the subject that I choose was the impact on the ball on golf design. I had a number of players who approached me after the talk and a couple mentioned they had played the ball yesterday and how ironic it was that I was talking about how much a role back would help as designer. There was no criticism from anyone that I spoke to.

One player in particular went so far as to mentioned that he loved the ball since it required him to hit one of two clubs more into all the holes and felt that this rewarded skill. He also felt that they were playing the holes as they were designed to play and that was placing a premium back on the approach and ball placement. He felt that anything that returned shot-making was better for the game.

He also pointed out the great layouts they used to play that have become too short and felt that was reason enough for change.

[Garland Bayley]

Thanks for the report Ian. I have long advocated putting the spin back in the ball to shorten it. I hope that is what they are doing, but I doubt it.

[RJ_Daley]

Ian, this should be the most active topic on GCA.com!  It is the essence of what the controversies have been about regarding new course development and restoration-remodelling. 

Will there be some sort of golf association analysis of the results of this experiment, published?  It seems that this is the best sort of test case we can hope for.  Yet, it is one lower tier competition, in one isolated setting.  Did they keep GIRs and driving distance and accuracy stats in this competition and compare them to the participants normal stats?  What distance yardage was the event played from?

I sincerely wish the ANGC committee would take this example to heart, and finally give this sort of unique competition ball requirement of a one ball spec for all competitors a reasonable try, at least for one year.  They could put tee boxes back up a bit, and just see how this all plays out. 

[Dan Herrmann]

We had the USGA/R&A visit our club in 2008 to test a similar ball with "real world" golfers.

The ball we used was a Bridgestone with a dimple pattern that increased spin rates and reduced distance.  But it reduced distance more for the very long hitter than for a shorter hitter.

For example, the guy that hits his drives the longest at our club lost about 20%.  My wife with her 70 MPH swing speed actually GAINED distance.  She loved the ball and wanted to buy more!

I'm about a 10 index, and I loved the ball.  It actually played like one of those old Titleist Pro Trajectory balls, without the fear of ending up with a smile on the ball.

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Unfortunately, the USGA/R&A didn't seem keen on publishing the results.

[Ian Andrew]

Will there be some sort of golf association analysis of the results of this experiment, published?

Yes there was - no you will not see it.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Great news, well it’s a start or another start after the one Dan mentioned.

My concern is that there seems to be no debate nor conversation with anyone be it at the grass roots clubs level or across the spectrum of players. The development or control of both club and ball should include the clubs at least. The Captains should be made aware of what is in the pipeline and what is being tested. All hidden agenda leads to lack of trust, but its golf and its future equipment being discussed shouldn’t the  people who pay the final bill for all this work be at least kept in the picture.

Test and publish. Let’s have a debate based upon facts that have been agreed by all not just prepared then dismissed by a secret body.

Thanks Ian for the heads up

Melvyn

[Niall C]

Ian

As well as restricting distance, do you know if the ball had reduced spin round the greens and for approach shots ? Arguably a harder ball ie. less spin, would help bring back the need to plot your way round a course. What do you think ?

Niall

[Brian Laurent]

One player in particular went so far as to mentioned that he loved the ball since it required him to hit one of two clubs more into all the holes and felt that this rewarded skill. He also felt that they were playing the holes as they were designed to play and that was placing a premium back on the approach and ball placement. He felt that anything that returned shot-making was better for the game.

He also pointed out the great layouts they used to play that have become too short and felt that was reason enough for change.

I am not a fan of a ball roll back.  This player mentions that he loves it since it required him to hit more club and that it rewarded skill...how will this reward overall skill?  Would it not just separate the long ball hitters even more?  Instead of 6 iron, they're hitting 5 iron where the guy that was hitting hybrid into the green struggles to get home with a three wood?  I'm not seeing how this would be good for the game in general.

Wouldn't a ball roll back also negatively impact architects?  We all know new builds are very rare and if clubs no longer have a need to adapt to the improved technology, would there be a need for as many renovations?  Taking a step backward is a great novelty...go play a round with hickory shafted clubs for fun every now and then, but to institute a step back across the board is a horrible idea in my mind.  

I would rather see the game and great courses adapt to the current environment much like successful businesses adapt to and embrace the "latest and greatest" technological advances.

[Gary Slatter]

Brian:  it could be a great thing for the game and its classic courses.   Better than all these new tees and dragging bunkers around.

[Garland Bayley]

...Would it not just separate the long ball hitters even more?  ...

The long hitters are penalized more by the shorter ball. See Dan's post above.

...Taking a step backward is a great novelty...go play a round with hickory shafted clubs for fun every now and then, but to institute a step back across the board is a horrible idea in my mind.  

The USGA has implemented two ball "step backs" already by putting two different limitations on the ball at two different times when the ball distance increased. So it is not a novelty. Are you saying past ball limitations by the USGA were horrible ideas?

I would rather see the game and great courses adapt to the current environment much like successful businesses adapt to and embrace the "latest and greatest" technological advances.

So your version is that if a business grows in size it needs to continually reduce the office/work area size to adapt to the times. 

[Dan Herrmann]

Niall Carlton,
The ball we played was marked in a similar way.  It was essentially a Bridgestone e5 with a different dimple pattern that increased spin.  Hardness was not a variable.

[Ian Andrew]

Wouldn't a ball roll back also negatively impact architects?  We all know new builds are very rare and if clubs no longer have a need to adapt to the improved technology, would there be a need for as many renovations?

Possibly. There are more reasons than just length for renovations.

I would rather see the game and great courses adapt to the current environment much like successful businesses adapt to and embrace the "latest and greatest" technological advances.

The problem is this all makes the game far more expensive. The ball goes longer AND WIDER which means more acreage is required. More land, more area disturbed, more area maintained = a more expensive game.

[Jud_T]

personally I enjoy paying $150 for a 5 1/2 hour death march....

[Brian Laurent]

I'm saying that I don't think the answer has to be reducing the performance of the golf ball.  Do you think it is impossible for a club to keep the integrity of its design and the designer's philosophy intact while adapting to today's game?  I don't...and I do not believe that adding length is the only way to go. 

Ian, you would certainly know better than me, but why do we need to maintain larger area just because the ball is going wider?  Seems to me that reducing the playing area is one of the more popular trends in course maintenance to reduce costs.  Plus, we're mainly referring to older clubs adapting, so I can't see the distance a ball travels costing clubs more money.

[Ian Andrew]

Brian,

Width is for safety - larger spacing between holes and larger buffers to houses and roads.

Increased maintenance comes with length - more tees, more fairway and more rough.


I'll ask the tough question we face.
How do I place bunkers "economically" when the short hittters and long hitters are as far apart as they are.

[Dan Herrmann]

Answer - you can't!

Unless, of course, you build 1,200 of the suckers, but that's a topic for another thread

[Matthew Rose]

I think pros should have to play with a 1978 Club Special, with the perfectly square rows and columns of dimples.

Orange, of course. Or optic yellow

[Brian Laurent]

Ian-

Don't get me wrong...I understand 100% where you are coming from and where width and length can attribute to additional up front costs from needing larger parcels of land (especially for safety reasons).  

Is it a requirement these days to have 5-7 sets of tees?  Is it a requirement to expand the size of the fairway to accommodate the back tees?  If they're longer hitters, should they not also have a longer carry to the fairway?  Do all areas of the rough need to be maintained on a weekly basis?  Probably no right or wrong answers...it surely differ from facility to facility.

Definitely no easy answer regarding the bunkers.  That's why they pay you guys the big  bucks!  Once the course is built...how do you get players to play the right tees in order to maximize their experience?

[Ian Andrew]

Once the course is built...how do you get players to play the right tees in order to maximize their experience?

The best answer to date is to charge them $5 more of every tee they go back.   

[Mike H]

What is the real reason for the tournament ball, is it to lower the scores on the PGA tour?  If the PGA wants to do this they should look at course set up.  A great example is how the USGA sets up Pebble Beach for the opens.  Granted the guys we watch on tv are crazy long but you put them on a narrow, hard, fast course with good greens and they can all struggle.  I am personally tired of watching them play 521 yard par 4's. 

[Paul Stephenson]

Once the course is built...how do you get players to play the right tees in order to maximize their experience?

The best answer to date is to charge them $5 more of every tee they go back.   

As a Monday morning economist I'd love to see a study on that.  My guess is that the outcome may not be favourable.  It reminds me of a daycare in Isreal that decided to charge a late fee to deter late pick-ups.  Turns out late pick-ups increased.

A premium priced back tee may give someone who knows they shouldn't be back there a reason to be there;  they paid for it.  Like I said I'd love to see the numbers.  Gotta go...I'm late picking up the kids

[jeffwarne]

  A great example is how the USGA sets up Pebble Beach for the opens.  Granted the guys we watch on tv are crazy long but you put them on a narrow, hard, fast course with good greens and they can all struggle.  I am personally tired of watching them play 521 yard par 4's. 

Fix the ball and they can play Pebble--not that crap they called Pebble last June

[A.G._Crockett]

Driving the ball a long way is a skill, and an important one.  Has been since the game's beginning.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has a philosophical problem with a ball that penalizes you more the more skilled you are.

[Mark Pearce]

The R&A carried out similar exercises (to the one Dan mentions, not with Pros) at a number of clubs in the UK last year.  My eldest son played in an experimental medal with a special ball at Elie last August.  He hit his drives around 200 yards last year and reported no noticeable loss of distance.  A 7 handicapper I play with occasionally reckoned he was 1/2 a club shorter.  Some ladies apparently noticed an increase in length.  Strangely both my son and the 7 'capper felt the ball rolled further when putting!

[Jason Connor]

As a Monday morning economist I'd love to see a study on that.  My guess is that the outcome may not be favourable.  It reminds me of a daycare in Isreal that decided to charge a late fee to deter late pick-ups.  Turns out late pick-ups increased.

A premium priced back tee may give someone who knows they shouldn't be back there a reason to be there;  they paid for it.  Like I said I'd love to see the numbers.  Gotta go...I'm late picking up the kids

Behavioral economics meets GCA.  And I think that's a spot on analogy.

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