[Bill Brightly]

I had the chance to play Bayonne yesterday for the first time.  I know that this course has been discussed here many times but I  figure many people will enjoy seeing more photos of a modern day land reclamation marvel.  I could have just posted photos of the golf course, but I chose to include some of the surrounds because to me, that is the true "beauty" of the course: that a previously useless tract of land could be transformed into such a place is amazing.

As I played the course, I kept thinking: "wow, what a great golf hole" and then "wow, look at where they built this golf hole..." if you know what I mean.


From the first tee onward, your golfing eye will be asked to choose between the factories, cranes and ships in the background:



or the beautiful golf course in the foreground:

[Bill Brightly]

Do you like looking at the golf hole?




Or the surrounds (note the Statue of Liberty in the distance!)

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,

I like the golf course.

It's most unusual, especially when you consider that the entire property was as flat as a pancake at 10' ASL.

I love that huge, majestic American flag flying in the wind, visible from almost everywhere on the golf course.

I think it's an intimidating golf course, one where repeat play helps the golfer get oriented and comfortable.

The WIND makes it fun and challenging.

Eric created a three dimensional golf course and I've never seen that before.

Some of the holes are really, really outstanding in that they're good, and, you'd never know that you're in Bayonne as you play them.

Thanks for the pictures.

[Mark Arata]

It looks great.....terrifying......but great! Yet another NJ course I didnt get a chance to play while I was home.......RATS!

[Bill Brightly]

Pat,

After golf I had a drink with one of the civil engineers on the project and he explained a lot about the construction process, including how the entire site was at 10 feet elevation when they started. That is hard to believe when you play it and look back up at the clubhouse! He also explained that the entire clubhouse "floats" meaning that it is not anchored with pilings, so that if there ever is any settling, the entire building will settle uniformly.

The flag is the second largest on the east coarst (West Point has the largest) and I accidently hit one of the coolest shots in my life on hole 18. I had 165 to the pin, uphill with the wind, so I played for a high faded 6 iron. I happened to hit it really well, and as it climbed the ball got "lost" in the flag way off in the distance, then I picked it up as it sailed up and back down "through" the flag and landed near the pin. Definitely a "had to be there moment" but it gave me goosebumps.

[Richard Hetzel]

Bill,

Great pictures of a neat golf course. I actually LIKE the industrial back drop views from the course. It's a dramatic shift, but likable none the less.

Rich

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,

The stress factor from the wind is so great on that flag that they had to counter sink the pole about 70' below the surface.

Bayonne is a special golf course.

I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but, it's unique, fun to play and challenging.

The last time I played it there was a two club wind.
That can be really scarey on some of those holes.

While I feel it's a "driving" golf course, those greens are really terrific with plenty of slope and contour.

It's a fun place.

It's mostly aerial golf, but there's a number of ground holes.

[Bill Brightly]

Here are few more photos.  I played in a 16-man event with a little cash riding on it, so my foursome wanted me to focus on golfing my ball, not the architecture...so I snapped as many photos as a I dared, made 3 birdies for them, and shot a decent but not outstanding score.

The wind is definitely a factor here, which fits in quite nicely with the linksy look! Views from the clubhouse:

[Cliff Hamm]

Flat piece of land near a body of water.  They both move tons and tons of dirt.  One puts in lots of eye candy with upwards of 1000 bunkers.  The other while maybe a bit manufactured looking also has a natural look to it.  One course is described as penal.  The other as fun.  One course is ranked by all 3 national publications.  One is only ranked by Golfweek under best modern.  Both are links style courses.  One definitly does not play that way.  The other possibly. One has bunkers that don't always seem like bunkers.  The other leaves no doubt....

[Bill Brightly]

Just a few more photos:

[Jay Flemma]

It's not only beautiful, but also brainy.  There is great architecture.  I like how it comes back to the clubhouse at 4.  The routing is terrific, it plays like a links, has great greens with nice interior contours.

I'd make one change...I'd start the course with 14.  I know it's a par-3, but there is something thrilling about finishing up at the clubhouse with that flag waving at you, after playing that terrific hole (12) down to the water past the 7 sisters.  I know that's controversial, but Royal Lytham starts with a par-3...

[Matt_Ward]

Bill:

Great photos !

The thing about Bayonne is how contained the place is given the close proximity to all the commotion and clutter that calls itsself Hudson County.

Just a fun place to play and you are spot on -- the wind can really howl there.

Why the course is not rated even higher simply amazes me -- likely few have played it.

[Bill Brightly]

To Jay, Matt, Cliff and others:

I have not played WS but I have been to Bandon. While Bayonne, WS and the four BD courses all have links looks, perhaps the BIGGEST difference is the turf. I am NOT a turf head, but the Bandon courses all seem to be pure fesucue greeens and fairways (with poa creeping in...) while Bayonne has bent grass greens and fairways, is that right?

If WS had been planted with the same type of fescus as the Bandon courses, would it get more love from the treehouse?

[archie_struthers]

 

Bill actually Bayonne is not all bent ...fairways fescue and Colonial Bent mix ...if I  recollect .....Rich Hurley *doc of agronomy : and Eric B were careful to mottle it up pretty good....I'll research and get back on this but thiere  was lots of thought to authentic turf  grasses ...and fast conditions similar to the auld sod ...remember this summer has been brutal there  and it still runs out ..theres lots of neat grasses on the mounds and Eric was concerned about the switchgrass being too aggressive

[Bill Brightly]

Archie,

I would appreciate any help on this, I do not claim to know each grass type by name. But I do know this: I had no fear of hitting a lob wedge or sand wedge from any fairway at Bayonne, while at Bandon, I had to really think long and hard about sand wedge (knifed at least 3 in 9 rounds) and my lob wedge stayed home...

[Brad Fleischer]

I have not played it but I grew up right over the Bayonne Bridge and have walked the trail that runs along side some of the course. I know it has been said etc but it really is a marvel what they were able to accomplish on that site . Pretty amazing and more so for me because I remember what it looked like prior . I never get tired of looking at pics as I just shake my head in disbelief.

Bill

Nice pics. If you have played Arcadia Dunes or WS how would you compare the aesthetics meaning which seemed less man made and more natural to you . Obviously from spots on Bayonne you know its not supposed to be there but when I walked alongside it I can honestly say it looked less contrived than Arcadia. I am sure if you dropped someone in the right spot on Bayonne he wouldn't know where he was . i didn't get that feeling at Arcadia. As far as WS I have yet to play it so would be curious.

Brad

[Bill Brightly]

Brad,
 
I have not yet played WS or Arcadian Dunes. I am one day removed from my first trip to Bayonne but the contrast between golf course and warehouses/ships/cranes and New York City is fascinating. I really don't think it looked contrived at all.  I mean, OBVIOUSLY it is 100% "contrived", but I really think they did a great job of copying an Irish links look (sorry, I have never been to Scotland.) I don't think they wanted totally Fast and Firm conditions and a reliance on the ground game. 

What I was trying to say in my initial post is that if you kept your gaze at dune level or lower, you would completely forget where you were. And if the view over the dunes was the Atlantic Ocean... I truly wonder how much higher it would be ranked.

[Brad Fleischer]

What I was trying to say in my initial post is that if you kept your gaze at dune level or lower, you would completely forget where you were. And if the view over the dunes was the Atlantic Ocean... I truly wonder how much higher it would be ranked.

I totally agree. That's what intrigues me the most . I didn't get that at AD.

[Matt_Ward]

Bill:

I would not use the word "contrived" to describe Bayonne -- it is clearly manufactured but it's done in such an impressive manner by Eric Begstol. The story behind the course's creation is no less impressive -- in fact -- more impessive than what you hear about Shadow Creek.

I'd like to see Bayonne adopt more of a "brown is good" philosophy and get the F&F up to some serious speed.

Part of the problem is that too many people -- sad but true -- still don't get the concept of the bounce of the ball being a fundamental element in overall design.

You are 100% spot on -- plant the Atlantic Ocean over the ridge line and the place would need fences as high as a prison to keep people away.

Bayonne is a marvel of design -- forget all the drivel about the high fescue -- if someone hits it that far wide then lessons are the order of the day. The course simply suffers from a lack of exposure -- the only weak link -- although it's cool -- is the wet driving range !

[Matt_Ward]

Bill B:

What surprised you in Bayonne when you played it ?

No doubt you had read the stories and seen some photos prior to it.

The best hole you saw was ?

Most underrated hole ?

thanks,

p.s. would you rate the course among the top five courses in NJ that you have played ?

[Bill Brightly]

Matt, I had read all about Bayonne on GCA.com but purposely did NOT refresh my memory before playing there.

Two things surprised me:
1) How well they crafted a links-looking course, especially if you fix your gaze at dune level and below. I have been to Ireland twice and I think Bayonne is an excellent visual representation (but not in the play.) The heather is gorgeous.

2) I was stunned by the contrast between the industrialized area around the course (NYC skyline, huge cranes, warehouses and ocean-going vessels) and a beautiful golf course. I am sure that I have never played a course with such a STARK contrast between golf course and the  surrounds. Can you think of one? That is what I tried to show wih my photos.

I would rather not rank the course (and its holes) after just one play. I was trying to score and I tend to overlook architecture when I focus on scoring...but I snapped as many photos as I could. However, I doubt it will crack my top 5: Pine Valley, Ridgewood,  Mountain Ridge, Essex County and Plainfield. I'd have to really consider if it is better than Somerset Hills, Galloway, Atlantic City, Forsgate, Hollywood (and a few others) before I put it in my second 5.

But if the conditions ever get to truly fast and firm and Bayonne plays like an Irish links course wih less of an aerial game...I think it might zoom up my rankings.

Holes 13-18 are superb golf holes. Great variety of length, wind direction, uphill/downhill and stunning views.

[Matt_Ward]

Bill:

I agree -- if the eyes stay contained from within the property -- it does transport you to another place -- certainly not Hudson County. For many courses that are completely unnatural to their surroundings that can be a difficult thing to accomplish -- Bergstol did very well in that regard. The stark contrast you mentioned is certainly one for the ages -- I can't immediately think of a place where the juxtaposition between golf course and those elements outside of it are so utterly different. I mean -- let's not forget the drive into the place either !

Bill, from what you have read -- are you saying that Bayonne -- as presently constituted -- would not crack your NJ top ten course list ?

Frankly, I see the course easily making my top ten for the state -- Bayonne is different and different not to just be different but it's location and golf course that I candidly believe is one of those places that people need to play in order to appreciate the effort it took to create it and what has come from all those efforts.

[Jerry Kluger]

Bill:  I too have not played Whistling Straits but we have certainly read all the criticism about the course.  Does it not seem that if they had taken the features and toned them down to the level seen at Bayonne that WS would be a better course? You really don't need to create a course with monstrous mounding and 1200 bunkers in order for it to be a great course. 

[Bill Brightly]

Jerry,

When you say "tone down" WS I assume that you mean remove many of the bunkers (waste areas ), right?

That begs the question: what do you replace them with? I am just starting to learn about links courses, but if you line the roughs with heavy gorse, like at Portrush and Royal County Downs...you could make WS twice as hard, especially for the average golfer. Even thick heather would be harder. If you replace it with regular bluegrass rough, it would be far easier. My guess is that hitting out of the sand at WS is EASIER than many other possible lies that you could have...and the balls are probably easier to find as well.

Bayonne has generous fairways but pretty thick heather if you spray it. I only was in once all day, took a sand wedge out, and left with a bogey.  The 19 handicap I played with was hacking out of it all day, and picked up about 5 times.


Matt,

I won't argue too hard if Bayonne is ranked between 7 and 14 in NJ. You tell me which one of these goes to make room for Bayonne:

1) Pine Valley
2) Ridgewood
3) Mountain Ridge  
4) Plainfield
5) Essex County
6) Somerset Hills
7) Galloway
8.) Atlantic City
9) Forsgate
10) Hollywood
11) Baltustrol Upper
12) Baltustrol Lower
13) Ridge
14) Trump National (Bedminster)
15) Hamilton Farms

[Matt_Ward]

Jerry:

Well stated.

The issue for Bayonne is likely that few people have played it from other areas of the USA when coming to NJ.

The Straits is simply overkill -- Pete simply lobbed all of the "extra" items to just overload the senses when playing there.

Bayonne doesn't do that and while it's clearly manufactured to the max -- it works very well -- even in the areas of the front nine where things can be a little cramped.

Bill:

I don't see MR as a top five layout in NJ.

PV
Plainfield


The above two are the premier layouts in the state in my mind.

After that you can make a good case for the following three:

Ridgewood / East & West
Galloway National
Essex Ciounty CC

While I like Forsgate considerably since the new changes were made -- I see it, ACCC and Somerset Hills below what Bayonne provides. That doesn't mean to say the ones I just mentioned are inferior layouts -- it's just that Bayonne is clearly special for what it provides and how it proves what man can overcome to create a layout that is really fun to play. Just my thoughts.

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