Oh My Lord, if this "grounding club in waste bunker" happens...

[mike_malone]

 Is it possible that he wasn't thinking about anything but  how to hit the shot? This seems consistent with his behavior at Pebble.

[ward peyronnin]

The PGA  blew this Championship. Venues they choose for the Ryder Cup and perhaps now for the PGA are all about profiling a commercial enterprise and not so much the course.

The philosophy of declaring all sand to be bunkers is a poor one as many on this thread have argued and the whole handling of the incident from start to finish was rotten.

And they deserve what they have gotten :

Another 2010 Major champion with little personality and  no name recognition from a country that barely exists in the golf map that does nothing to help revive the game of golf. Justice is served and as much as i would have like to see Bubba win I derive a certain satisfaction from that. At least Louie has a gap tooth grin to distinguish from " who were those guys"

[Emil Weber]

Another 2010 Major champion with little personality and  no name recognition from a country that barely exists in the golf map that does nothing to help revive the game of golf. Justice is served and as much as i would have like to see Bubba win I derive a certain satisfaction from that. At least Louie has a gap tooth grin to distinguish from " who were those guys"

WHAT?

You have got to be kidding me.

LITTLE PERSONALITY? THAT IS JUST LAUGHABLE; YOU DONT KNOW HIM AT ALL. My god you havent even met Martin He is a GREAT, kind young man who is calm on the golf course (he would be the LAST golfer to throw a club, don't you guys hate that about Tiger?). He is a deserving winner, with ambition and passion for the game, he practices so hard and just didn't know what to say at the presentation. btw his mother died two years ago from cancer.

NO NAME??? Martin Kaymer was ranked 13th in the world before heading into the tournament (now 5th), has won 5 times on the european tour in not even 4 years, is a sure ryder cup player and you say no name? Thats because some of you americans simply dont care what goes on in other countries, YES there are golfers from everywhere around the world that can play, especially as he had already been in the World Top 10 before!

And a country that barely exists on the golf map, doesn't revive the game of golf? That is TOO bad no American won, the 2010 Pga Championship may not revive the game in the US (sorry you don't know another country, oh sorry, maybe you have heard about scotland...), but it will DEFINITELY do so in this little 82-million people country called Germany, where the game is growing as fast as nowhere in Europe, where there are over 700 golf courses and the country is smaller than most of your states.

"Who where those guys" you better remember his name (are you even a golfer, a shame you hadn't known the name before), because he will certainly continue to play well, which is what you might want to expect from an "officially" top 5 player in the world.

I am so sorry for you that none of the american guys won (I really like Bubba), maybe that is why all the people left from the stages while the trophy was presented to Martin... that was disrespectful.

I take offense from your post as a German (yes there are people from Germany interested in GCA )... and hope you read this,

cheers.

[Tim Pitner]

And they deserve what they have gotten :

Another 2010 Major champion with little personality and  no name recognition from a country that barely exists in the golf map that does nothing to help revive the game of golf. Justice is served and as much as i would have like to see Bubba win I derive a certain satisfaction from that. At least Louie has a gap tooth grin to distinguish from " who were those guys"

Ward,

Rather narrow-minded of you, I must say.  Who knows where Kaymer will go from here?  He looks to be a class player and a fixture on the European Ryder Cup team.  I'm sure his win was well-received in Germany.  

[Lester George]

Phil,

I am convinced that the reaction from the crowd was becuase of the headsets.  I wasn't there yesterday, but I was at Hazeltine last year and the headsets were on well over 50% of the people I saw in the stands at 9 and 18.  I'll bet if you watch the proceedings unfold from the CBS telecast you will hear the booing start as soon as the broadcast crew said, "yep, its a two shot penalty".  Yes, I could be wrong, but I was really paying attention because I thought some of the CBS folks were trying to sway the audience.  I could be wrong.

Lester

[Phil McDade]

Lester:

They allow headsets on a golf course these days? The apocalypse is now....

Seriously, I wasn't aware of their prevelance; if they were being worn, you probably have the better of the argument.

[David_Tepper]

"Another 2010 Major champion with little personality and  no name recognition from a country that barely exists in the golf map that does nothing to help revive the game of golf. Justice is served and as much as i would have like to see Bubba win I derive a certain satisfaction from that. At least Louie has a gap tooth grin to distinguish from " who were those guys""

Ward -

Sorry to pile on, but your comments were very ill-advised. Even if Dustin Johnson had made the playoffs, we cannot know that Martin Kaymer still would not have won. After all Kaymer was the player with the highest ranking between himself, Watson & Johnson. The purpose of the PGA Championship is not to determine the most photogenic, personable or marketable player in the field. It is to see who posts the best score over the weekend.

As far as the growth of the game in Germany, it is worth noting that the losing finalist in the British Boys Championship yesterday was a lad from Germany. Maybe Kaymer's win will inspire him to even greater accomplishments. By the way, he lost to a Spaniard.

Golf is now a global game. We better get used to that.

DT

[David_Elvins]

The philosophy of declaring all sand to be bunkers is a poor one

They didn't.  They declared all bunkers to be bunkers. 

[Philippe Binette]

Next time Dustin, hit 3 wood down the miiddle...

[Mike McGuire]

Phil,

I am convinced that the reaction from the crowd was becuase of the headsets.  I wasn't there yesterday, but I was at Hazeltine last year and the headsets were on well over 50% of the people I saw in the stands at 9 and 18.  I'll bet if you watch the proceedings unfold from the CBS telecast you will hear the booing start as soon as the broadcast crew said, "yep, its a two shot penalty".  Yes, I could be wrong, but I was really paying attention because I thought some of the CBS folks were trying to sway the audience.  I could be wrong.

Lester

I was there on Friday and was given a headset.

I think it was the feed from XM/Sirius radio not CBS. Those guys were pretty loose so no telling what they would say when the DJ incident was breaking.

[John Moore II]

The philosophy of declaring all sand to be bunkers is a poor one

They didn't.  They declared all bunkers to be bunkers. 

Not quite that either. They declared all areas BUILT as bunkers to be played as bunkers (hazards). How are players supposed to know which of these sand areas was designed to be a bunker? Or are they to assume they're all bunkers? I wouldn't assume that.

[TEPaul]

"I didn't say anything about cheating.
I said he was lying when he said he didn't think it was a bunker."


Shivas:

Oh, I see! Well that makes all the difference in the world, I guess. There's obviously a huge difference between cheating and lying to the championship Rules committee by telling them you didn't think you were in a bunker when you thought you were!    

[David_Elvins]

The philosophy of declaring all sand to be bunkers is a poor one

They didn't.  They declared all bunkers to be bunkers. 

Not quite that either. They declared all areas BUILT as bunkers to be played as bunkers (hazards). How are players supposed to know which of these sand areas was designed to be a bunker? Or are they to assume they're all bunkers? I wouldn't assume that.

That is true.  But as I wrote earlier, I think that the fact there was sand there, there was a bunker lip, and it was located on the course yardage book/layout, would be an indication that it was a built bunker.   

Having said that, Johnson didn't have to decide whether it was a bunker or not, he just had to assume that it may have been a bunker and asked for clarification.

I think Shivas is actually right.  i am sure at some stage he thought about it, but wit hso many thoughts going through his mind, it probably wasn't a clear thought.  But that is just speculation and I wouldn't declare him a liar. 

[Paul OConnor]

I heard from some of DJ's Coastal Carolina buddies, that his caddy had actually put DJ's bag down in the "bunker" before the shot in question.  So DJ was gonna get a two shot penalty anyway, grounded club or not.

[Kevin Pallier]

Paul

I think you will find that putting the bag in the bunker would incur no penalty

[ward peyronnin]

I apologize for offending anyone. Mr Kaymer is a fine golfer and I am sure a nice man but my exposure to his on course presence did not raise the applause meter very high; proficient yes exciting?

I was more interested in calling the PGA to task for their administration of the tournament and highlighting the more highly defined commercial nature of their championship and the irony that this resulted in a much less marketable champion for an organization that seems to be most concerned about the money. That and a now extant image as bunch of gotcha guys.
The European version is even worse taking the Ryder Cup to hyped up resort courses so that more rich Americans will stop off during their helicopter tours.  

[Adam Clayman]

I can't believe I made it through this whole thread. I'm shocked at V.Kmetz position. And, how many people still believe that something can still be called a waste bunker.

If you guys want to hear a real tragedy about this....

We were playing the 3rd iteration of Dismal River, while this was on Television. One of our group was too tired to play that afternoon so he went to nap. He woke and was watching the coverage when DJ hit his drive on 18. He described it as a slice, right of right. A very odd shot for the 72 hole of a major tourney, especially from the leader. Then, in true Heidi fashion, the coverage immediately switched to the Denver pre-season football game. Nobody here saw this whole fiasco. Coverage ended immediately after his drive.

To top all that off, when someone finally got cell coverage, they read a headline on Google showing that Bubba had won. It wasn't until late last night did we learn Kaymer had won. Truly bizarre.


BTW, DR is a different golf course now. It's new ownership is worthy and the course is much improved.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

I heard from some of DJ's Coastal Carolina buddies, that his caddy had actually put DJ's bag down in the "bunker" before the shot in question.  So DJ was gonna get a two shot penalty anyway, grounded club or not.

Come on Paul...you're a veteran caddy...you should know that's no crime.

Although a bag full of sand is likely no good when it comes time for the tip.

[Art Roselle]

I am not sure which of the many PGA threads to reply to, but I picked this one since it seems to have hit the ground first. 

I am in the Myrtle Beach area this week and many of the club pros around here know DJ and are, of course, devastated by what happened.  He is supposed to be a really nice kid.  Beyond that, however, several have made the same comment to me since it happened - that Dustin was especially susceptible to a mistake like that because he plays a lot of his golf around here and there is sandy waste area all over the place.  That is absolutely true, but I had not thought about it before.  If you hit it way off line at almost any course in this area, you wind up in a lie that looks exactly like where Dustin wound up at WS.  Some are true waste areas, but many are just sandy patches where grass has failed to grow - under trees, near cart paths, etc.  Around here, if you hit the ball as far off line as he did on the 18th, you are more likely than not to find yourself in a lie that looks just like the one he was in - scruffy and sandy with hay and footprints and maybe a beer cap lying next to it.  You ground your club and slash away.  It is just too bad that those scruffy, sandy, littered, footprinted areas at WS happend to be real bunkers.

It does not excuse the mistake, but I did find it an interesting point.  We are all a victim of what we are used to seeing, no matter what the local rule may say.   

[Tim_Cronin]

Art, that explains a lot. He saw what he often sees, and thought it was what it always is. But it wasn't.

[Chris Burgard]

Firstly, I have to ask....if it was Kaymer who incurred the penalty....would there be this big a kerfuffle??

Secondly,                              Phil Mickelson                       Martin Kaymer
                 2009 Open           48                                      37
                 2009 PGA             73                                      6
                 2010 WCG - CA     14                                      3
                 2010 Masters         1                                       54
                 2010 US Open       4                                       8
                 2010 Open            48                                     7
                 2010 PGA              12                                     1

CLEARLY, this No Name 25 year-old is an undeserving winner.  

Thirdly, on an architectural note, if this area was long grass and he hit it that far offline and had to chunk it back into play...there would be no controversy and DJ would still have had an opportunity to win/tie, with an appropriate penalty for being so crooked.

Fourthly, I had sand beneath my ball 6 times today (3 without rakes) and never once considered grounding my club. It is not like this is a new rule....no matter where you live.

Lastly, I was cheering for Bubba and was very disappointed to hear him intimate that he didn't care whether he won, just that he made the Ryder Cup. Perhaps he should have given his playoff spot to DJ.  

Chris

[Doug Siebert]

Paul

I think you will find that putting the bag in the bunker would incur no penalty

Are you certain about this?  Sounds like a pretty decent way to test the condition of the sand to me, especially if you have a carry bag with the two sharp little legs that fold out...

[Garland Bayley]

Let me understand. Stewart Cink can draw a line in the sand behind his ball and that's playing fair. Ernie Els gets a free drop from a wood pile that is 75 yards into the woods. Tiger Woods can have the gallery move boulders out of his way. But, DJ can't gently toe his iron in an sandy area through the green?

There is NO horse sense in this ruing. It's utterly foolish.

Read Pete Dye's books. They talk about waste areas. Waste areas exist whether or not you close your eyes and ears and hum. For the ruliing bodies to deny their existence is a failure of those organizations. If it is hard to conduct a championship on this course then don't play there.

I checked the rest of the thread to make sure no one else responded to this nonsense before I would way in. Mr. Boyce. Fine examples all. Except for one thing. In each case the golfer checked with a rules official before proceeding! Dustin is the one with no horse sense! All he had to do was ask a rules official. I bet he does next time.

[Richard Apperly]

Guys, he even took his practice swings away from the bunker...

Everything the guy did screamed "bunker shot".  I just don't believe that the word "bunker" didn't cross his mind.  He simply did too many of the things you do when you know your ball is in a bunker to believe that the thought never crossed his mind... 

That proves absolutely nothing. Here in Melbourne, we often play from sandy waste areas that require a bunker type shot, irrespective of whether you are in a bunker or not.

BTW, I think DJ knew exactly waht he did and I think he carried on too long with the officials by not stating that he grounded his club.  I got the feeling he was quibbling with them until they reminded him of the rules of the competition.  I hope I am wrong because I want him to be successful, but it sure appeared that he was not willing to take responsibility for his actions.

Clearly there are many mind readers here on GCA.

If I was told I had just been penalised two shots, thus meaning I would miss a shot at my first major championship, I would sure as heck want to be 100% certain what was going on. He clearly stated in interviews afterwards that there was no doubting he had grounded his club...that was not in question. I gather the discussion surrounded on the local rule with respect to the waster areas.

Not sure how else he was meant to act post round. Perhaps
PGA: "Hey Dustin, here's a two shot penalty for grounding your club in a bunker"
DJ: OK thanks. I'll just fix up my card and be on my way.

[Kevin Pallier]

Paul

I think you will find that putting the bag in the bunker would incur no penalty

Are you certain about this?  Sounds like a pretty decent way to test the condition of the sand to me, especially if you have a carry bag with the two sharp little legs that fold out...

Doug

I was referring to the mere act of a caddy inadvertently placing the bag in the bunker - not the testing of the conditions