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George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2010, 04:33:49 PM »
Jay, I agree with you--the untold story is that on 99% of major championship courses that tee shot would be OB or jail...it was 75 yards of line.

Jason,

I think 75 yars offline is a little bit of an exageration.  I was sitting very near that spot on Saturday (on a bunker lip, no less), and Dustin's drive looked like it was probabaly about 15 yards from the right edge of the fairway, meaning it was probably 20-25 yards wide of the intended line...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 04:35:23 PM by George Freeman »
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2010, 04:52:22 PM »
John K., sorry, I"m not buying that.  I sat about 5 ft from that bunker for about 8-10 groups coming through on Thurs.  Some of the drives caused us to get ready to scramble out of the way and landed right at our feet in the intermediate rough.  The crowds were not at all so great that not more than about 10-12 people were in that area Thurs, and none of them were standing in any of those obvious bunkers near that location.  The players had practice rounds all week there, and by Sunday, also passed that spot of bunkers, where no crowds were obscuring their obvious presents 3 competition days.  I would go so far as to wonder when Nance and Feherty knew right away that DJ had 233 left to the pin, that the yardage books have a specific yardage from that bunker.  When you look at DJs preshot getting ready to hit, you see a Marshall sitting on that bunker lip, not 8ft from his ball, then stand to hold up her hand to call for quiet when he hit.  That hairy lip rolled fescue grass is on a lip about 18inches high like a chair where the Marshall sat and continues for the entire high side of the bunker.  IMO she allowed the crowd to be too close and in the line of DJs line of extracaton from that spot, including herself.  That bunker is not more than 50-60ft (15-20 yards) from the edge of the FW, not 70 yards off line.  As DJ walked to the ball, Nance already called it a bunker, while they were just begining to clear the crowd.  IMHO, this was a mental lapse by DJ and his caddie.  The caddie should have already been talking about the bunker nature of where he hit it, before they even reached the ball.  The Marshalls-PGA staff did a poor job of placing the rope line, allowing the crowd to come down 10 more ft into the hill on the last day to watch play and thus to obscure the visual of the bunker by that crowd.  And, they surely should have not allowed play to procede without clearing another 20 or so people from within or on the high lip of that bunker, before Johnson got ready to play.  

And, it was not a sandy-dirt area.  It was a sand bunker, plain and simple.  I know, I saw it in its untrampled glory up close and personal Thurs, and even the close-ups available now on U-Tube and elsewhere clearly show bunker sand, not dirt., only with a few sneaker prints and such, as the written admonsihment given to the players were told to expect in such areas.  

To recap: the drive was not 70 yards wide right, maybe 20.  The bunker was unquestionably visable all week.  The yardage books and graphics all show it (even Google and Bing do)  They had exact yardage from it, and the lip was clearly visable to DJ where the marshal was not more than 8 ft within his line of sight to the green.  I've seen muni bunkers in far worse shape!  ::) ;) ;D
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 05:06:42 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Thomas McQuillan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2010, 04:57:37 PM »
I hope nobody actually thinks that dustin johnson actually created an acount here. At this moment in time, that would be almost as stupid as Donald Trump doing one. Seriously though, whoever did it has way too much spare time on their hands and in my opinion is a complete faggot

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2010, 04:58:33 PM »
Thomas, I respectfully but forcibly ask you to remove the slur.

John Moore II

Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2010, 05:02:13 PM »
I hope nobody actually thinks that dustin johnson actually created an acount here. At this moment in time, that would be almost as stupid as Donald Trump doing one. Seriously though, whoever did it has way too much spare time on their hands and in my opinion is a complete faggot

(If this post is edited, I will change this one as well)

Thomas-If you have looked at the email address, I haven't actually tried to send an email to it but I am certain it would bounce back as not sent, it is a joke, likely propagated by one of the Admins. Given that Ran was the second post on the thread, and 'Dustin' was all ready offline when that post was made, I suspect it was Ran that made the account. Yeah, I might edit the post if I were you.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2010, 05:11:20 PM »
Tom McQ, is DQ'd!!!!!!
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2010, 05:20:09 PM »
John K,

He did gain an advantage by testing the firmness of the sand.  When he first walked into the bunker he "tapped" his club on the ground prior to setting up to hit the ball.

Lester

Ron Farris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2010, 07:05:24 PM »
One should probably take a soil sample and see if the soil in the "bunker" is classified as sand.  Seems to me that the material in those bunkers was very fine and may not be classified as sand.  If so, then what happens?  Hard to change history.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2010, 07:09:37 PM »
Thomas - please edit your post today.  You can make passionate points without throwing around slurs.  Thanks.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2010, 08:25:22 PM »
I'm curious about something..........were there rakes in all 1200 of those bunkers?  That's about the easiest way I've found to tell if it's a waste bunker.

I would like to have the rake concession at Whistling Straits!

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2010, 08:31:36 PM »
Bill:

Gotta be proud of your local guy Bubba -- I like the way he played yesterday, and liked his "play to win" comment afterwards. Can't wait to see him in the Ryder Cup!


John Moore II

Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2010, 08:34:05 PM »
I'm curious about something..........were there rakes in all 1200 of those bunkers?  That's about the easiest way I've found to tell if it's a waste bunker.

I would like to have the rake concession at Whistling Straits!

You know, I have played courses where they did not have rakes in the bunkers at all, the rakes were all in the carts  :o :o  And I seem to remember that at the British Open there are forecaddy type guys who rake the bunkers instead of the player caddy's.

But I personally think all those areas should be waste areas. In most cases, the sand itself is enough of a penalty and the way the guys can play out of bunkers anyway, they're not very penal anymore.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2010, 08:54:43 PM »
I don't know where people posting here were standing along that fairway, but on TV it looked as if Johnson hit his drive into a swarm of people.

In fact, immediately they formed a donut around his ball...what looked to be a ten foot across hole surrounded by a huge mass of people.

The next TV shot we see is Johnson approaching his ball, the crowd parting and what looks like trampled grass, dirt, sand and trash.

I'm thinking, hey, not a bad lie considering, but all those people over 6 days have beat the crap out of the hillside. To my eye, there wqs nothing about  this scene that resembled a "bunker"....even the sand looked totally trashed and unlike any "bunker" I had seen anyone hit into during the tournament.

Personally, I think it was a lousy local rule and it was only a matter of time before someone got caught...yes, caught, because I bet it happened more than once last week.
We are no longer a country of laws.

Scott Coan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2010, 09:16:24 PM »
The PGA, Whistling Straights, and the emminent Pete Dye have just come out with the following clarification in regards to their definition of "bunkers" for all future tournament play at WS:

 Supplementary Rules of Play

1. Bunkers: All areas of the course that were designed and built as sand bunkers will be played as bunkers (hazards), whether or not they have been raked. This will mean that many bunkers positioned outside of the ropes, as well as some areas of bunkers inside the ropes, close to the rope line, will likely include numerous footprints, heel prints and tire tracks during the play of the Championship. Such irregularities of surface are a part of the game and no free relief will be available from these conditions.

2. If children can play in and build sand castles in any particular sandy area of the course that area will be played as bunkers (hazards).

WARNING:  please ensure that all children are kindly asked to exit the play area before executing your shot.

PS  If you see a tournament official sitting on their ass on the lip of any of these "bunkers" (particularly on the 72nd hole of a Major Championship) kindly ask that they exit the play area/bunker and return to their crowd control duties.


Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter? New
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2010, 09:26:06 PM »
Play the ball as it lies

 - simplest rule of all

Ohh, and by the way, note to self - read teh local rules again...

Stuart Appleby
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 09:46:52 PM by Brett Morrissy »
@theflatsticker

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who says stupid architecture doesn't matter?
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2010, 09:41:28 PM »
Bill:

Gotta be proud of your local guy Bubba -- I like the way he played yesterday, and liked his "play to win" comment afterwards. Can't wait to see him in the Ryder Cup!



Our local guys are pretty amazing.  Bubba, Boo Weekley, Heath Slocum (all on the Milton High School golf team for one year  ;D ) and Joe Durant on the PGA Tour, and Jerry Pate on the Champions Tour when he's not bunged up.

Bubba is a great young man.  We were boarding a Houston-Pensacola flight last night as Bubba was preparing to hit his shot toward the 18th green, just as well I didn't have to watch the finale.