WS an other great group of par 3s by Pete Dye.

[Anthony Gray]

  Is he the best at designing par threes ever?

  Anthony

[Andrew Summerell]

No     

[Matt Kardash]

Sadly yuo won't hear many positive comments about Pete Dye on this board these days. Pete Dye isn't this boards flavour of the week. The way everyone has been bashing WS you'd swear the course was a flaming pile of shit.

[Carl Nichols]

I liked each of the par 3's individually, but as a whole they seemed contrived -- all four parallel to the water, with the two on each side playing in opposite directions.   

[PCCraig]

I really like Pete Dye and would agree that he builds some great par-3's. Just look to BWR right down the street for some more great par-3's. The 3's at Crooked Stick are really good (#6 and #17 being probably the best of the 4). At Kiawah he built a fantastic set which has alot more variety than WS: #5 is a really cool long green playing toward the ocean, #8 is a really fun postage stamp-like green, #14 is "all-world" in my book...#17 is probably the closest thing to WS at TOC.

[Scott Warren]

If he builds better par threes than Harry Colt that would be a great achievement!

I've not played any of Dye's courses, but I know Andrew has a good experience of Dye and Colt, and I am inclined to trust his judgement.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I liked each of the par 3's individually, but as a whole they seemed contrived -- all four parallel to the water, with the two on each side playing in opposite directions.   

Not quite sure what that means.  In a sense the entire course is contrived, but the par threes are all different from each other.  They may all parallel the water but each requires different shots and the greens complexes are vastly different.

[Matt_Ward]

Tommy:

The Straits par-3 holes are repeated with the same general theme.

Just look at them and compare to what Pete did at Harbour Town, Teeth of the Dog, The Ocean Course, et al.

The Straits are good but far from extraordinary.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tommy:

The Straits par-3 holes are repeated with the same general theme.

Just look at them and compare to what Pete did at Harbour Town, Teeth of the Dog, The Ocean Course, et al.

The Straits are good but far from extraordinary.

I have not played the Teeth of the Dog, but have played the other two.  I'll give you that HT and Ocean Course have a better collection of par threes and are more varied then WS. 

[Matt_Ward]

Tommy:

I like what Pete did at The Straits -- the issue is how it stacks UP AGAINST THE OTHER TOP TIER LAYOUTS HE HAS DONE.

Plenty of Architects later in their years coast ahead and simply mail in the same concepts - little real groundbreaking ideas usually come out. The par-3 holes at Straits are good ones but as I said before Pete has done far better elsewhere in my mind.

[Pete Lavallee]

  Is he the best at designing par threes ever?

  Anthony

Anthony,

Can you explain, in more than one sentence , why Pete Dye designs great par 3's?

[Carl Nichols]

I liked each of the par 3's individually, but as a whole they seemed contrived -- all four parallel to the water, with the two on each side playing in opposite directions.   

Not quite sure what that means.  In a sense the entire course is contrived, but the par threes are all different from each other.  They may all parallel the water but each requires different shots and the greens complexes are vastly different.

Fair enough -- I'll grant you that the entire course is contrived, but the par 3's really highlighted that for me.  How many other great courses just happen to have each par 3 playing right along the signature body of water, but in a way that they just happen to play in opposite directions on both nines?  

[Jed Peters]

I liked each of the par 3's individually, but as a whole they seemed contrived -- all four parallel to the water, with the two on each side playing in opposite directions.   

Similar to 3 of them at Dye's Teeth of the Dog.

But you won't hear me complaining about that course!

[Scott Warren]

Here are #7 (flipped) and #17.

The resemblance is uncanny.

[Anthony Gray]

  Is he the best at designing par threes ever?

  Anthony

Anthony,

Can you explain, in more than one sentence , why Pete Dye designs great par 3's?

  all his courses have interesting par 3s with variety.You always remember them after the round.

  Anthony

[Pete Lavallee]

OK, I 'll agree that that the 4 par 3's at WS are memorable. However I think Scott has a very good point that there is little variety. All four are on the lake edge and two have greens that angle from 7 to 1 oclock with the other two being angled from 4 to 11 oclock. The distances are 183, 214, 166 and 223. This would not be my idea of tremendous variety. In fact, the Championship nature of the course virtually eliminates a variety of par 3's from the onset. Does Pete design many PW par 3 holes?

[Steve Burrows]

Does Pete design many PW par 3 holes?

I think the answer to that question is probably "No," but bear in mind that his clients might simply not ask him to do so.   Designers rarely have completely autonomy over the design, and if the client wants certain elements (e.g. long par-3's), the designer must either provide for them, or walk away from the project.  Also consider that the yardages given are typically from the back tees and a different test awaits if played from further up. 

[Phil McDade]

OK, I 'll agree that that the 4 par 3's at WS are memorable. However I think Scott has a very good point that there is little variety. All four are on the lake edge and two have greens that angle from 7 to 1 oclock with the other two being angled from 4 to 11 oclock. The distances are 183, 214, 166 and 223. This would not be my idea of tremendous variety. In fact, the Championship nature of the course virtually eliminates a variety of par 3's from the onset. Does Pete design many PW par 3 holes?

Pete:

They're playing SWs and PWs at #12 today at WS; it played yesterday at @ 125 yds. #12 has a fair amount of elasticity -- up to 50 yards difference depending on tees and which section of the green is used.