[Joe Perches]

I played Rancho Park in Los Angeles today for
the first time in quite a while.

The old Blue tees have been recolored to Black,
the old Whites to Blues, the old Reds to White, and
the old Red tees have been eliminated.

I presume this was done to improve pace of play as some
people just play tees by color code without much regard to
length.

I think this an odd scheme and was unimpressed.

Thoughts?

[Cliff Hamm]

I do believe it has some effect.  I generally like to play tees between 6200-6300.  These always used to be white.  Many courses now have them blue or even something else.  One course i play has the whites at about 5800 yards.  It seems that most play from these.  Golfers often look at the color of the tees rather then the yardage combined with course rating/slope.

[jeffwarne]

It works

[Wade Whitehead]

A course at which I used to play began to see pace of play problems, primarily due to out-of-town folks stopping by for a round.

The Superintendent changed the Senior tee (~5700 yards) color from golf to white.  The Men's tee was changed from white to blue.  The back tee was changed to black, I think.

Almost immediately, folks started playing the senior tee.  The white color lead them to believe it was the "correct" tee (and it probably was).  Members continued to play their old tee (which was now blue) and pace of play picked up significantly.

Such is human psychology.

WW

[Tom Yost]

I do think there are a lot of golfers who choose tees only by color, ignoring or perhaps not realizing the other factors one might consider when choosing the tees to play.

There is a course in Arizona, popular with the tourists and locals, that does not publish the total yardage on the scorecard. It is short-ish, and a par 70, but higher than average slope, so simply looking at the yardage, one might be tempted to play the wrong tees.  The staff is apparently trained to not answer the question as the several people I asked gave me misleading info.  "It plays like 6500 yards" was the description of the tees we ended up using,  Got home and added it up - 5900.

[Cliff Hamm]

Another tendency I've noted is public courses playing shorter than their stated yardage. Thus, they put the white tees where the 'green' tees should be on many holes.  Helps with the handicap but kills you if playing a match against someone from a course that keeps honest yardage.

[Robert Emmons]

We did it about 7 years ago and it has worked great. The old were blue , white, red and now gold , blue, red. Half the club moved up to the Blues.....RHE

[PCCraig]

Most courses would be better off taking away the farthest tee marker away all together, as well as to leave it off the scorecard. Scary to see so many players automatically hop to the back tee or just say "I always play the second to back tee."

[Dale Jackson]

I agree it works to recolour the tees.  The best thing we did was to get rid of the colour red for the forward tees, too much association with "womens" tees.  Since the change - we use, from back to front, gold, blue, white, green - we have a number of senior members who have moved up 1 or 2 sets of tees.  They have a better time, and are able to play at a more appropriate pace.

[Rick Sides]

I think tees play a big role in pace of play.  I work in the golf industry and play a lot and I will tell you most men play from too far back because they don't want to be associated with playing "sissy tees."  I can't begin to tell you the number of times I see men go back to 7,000+ yard tees and can barely hit the ball past the womens' tees.  A lot of guys also think if two or three people from their foursome play from the back tees, they too have to play from the back.  I heard a guy the other day tell his foursome he played to a 14 handicap and he was teeing off from over 7,000 yards- no reason a 14 should be back there.  How is it enjoyable if you're a 14 to struggle to break a 100 from the back tees?

[Tommy Williamsen]

My club did something different.  They named the tees, Championship (7100 yard par 71), tournament (6700+), and member (6500+).  Most guys had played what is now the tournament tees, but many of those have changed to the member tees.  There does not seem to be that much difference in yardage between the tournament and member tees but where the yardaage difference come is huge.  It turns a 470 yard par four into 440 yards, at 440 yard uphill par four into 400 yards, a 215 yard par three into 175 yards.  It also changed a couple of three shot par fives into holes that some can reach in two.   I played the member tees with a buddy (20 handicap) who enjoyed it much more because he didn't have to hit three woods into so many greens.

[Bill_Yates]

I'll bet it still took over 5 hours to play.

[Pete_Pittock]

It helps, but not much. Dale is right, most men regard red tees as ladies tees and refuse to play them. Men also have a tendency to play one set of tees further back than they should. If there are forced carries how far you hit is not as relevant as your carry distance.

 Our course still uses red, white, blue and gold, but had our golf association come up with composite ratings where a golfer can also use a specific set of blue/gold, blue/white or white/red holes and still turn in a postable score.  And yes, those can be tweaked very easily if you don't get 'right' the first time.

[Dale Jackson]

Pete, I agree composite tees are another answer to providing all members with a "course" they are comfortable and able to play.

[Ross Waldorf]

Joe:

This is a hilarious topic to me. I remember when I first moved to Los Angeles from the East Coast back in 1993, I was amazed that everybody always wanted to play the blue tees everywhere, whereas in Maryland, and in New York (when I lived there), everyone generally played white. I often would be the only guy in the group playing white (assuming I didn't feel that it screwed with pace of play, which is not generally an issue on weekends on a public course, because you're usually waiting anyway). I'm like Cliff -- I like the 6300 yard kind of yardage, because I just think it's more fun for me, and I'm certainly no bomber, but I hit it long enough that the yardage isn't really the main reason I like the "middle" tees. I just like getting to hit more mid- and short irons. Men are hilarious -- they just want to play from the "back." My favorite example in LA was always Brookside No.1 in Pasadena -- the whites are like 6400 or so, the blues were around 7000, I think, with at least one 485 yard par 4. Why would you want to play that far back if you're a regular, 16 handicap, 240 yard drive kind of guy? Never seemed like fun to me . . .

[John Moore II]

Most courses would be better off taking away the farthest tee marker away all together, as well as to leave it off the scorecard. Scary to see so many players automatically hop to the back tee or just say "I always play the second to back tee."

I have seen that as well, people who always want to play the 'one-up' tee. Eeek. One thing I did like about The Pit is that when they made their new 'Scratch' tees, they did not put those tees on the regular score card; at least they hadn't as of 2 years ago. If you even knew about those tees, you had to request a special scorecard and provide proof of handicap 5 or less. And those tees weren't marked in a way that most golfers would have recognized. So, if guys there played the 'one-up' tees, they were playing a 6100 yard golf course, which is as much a golf course as the average resort golfer needs.

[William_G]

Love it, at Eugene Country Club we changed the color of our tees for seniors from red to green and changed the ladies to red from yellow, LOL don't know know how/why they were originally done that way, but now we're good. Also, we created a combo scorecard for those who want to play a different course than say all blue, white, green, etc... Not sure yet on stats for speed of play, but we also eliminated markers at the monuments for the championship tees, so one is less likely to go back over 7000 yards to play although it is still on the card. Thanks

[Cliff Hamm]

The combo course seems like a great idea.  Does that mean that you can compute a handicap and play different tees?  For example a course I play from the gold tees but has a par 3 of 215 and two par 4's over 450.  I typically play these from the green tees.  Would a combo course enable me to compute a handicap?...BTW I don't understand why more folks don't play the tees that fit their game and the hole.  Why is it necessary to play only one color tee?

[Will MacEwen]

The combo course seems like a great idea.  Does that mean that you can compute a handicap and play different tees?  For example a course I play from the gold tees but has a par 3 of 215 and two par 4's over 450.  I typically play these from the green tees.  Would a combo course enable me to compute a handicap?...BTW I don't understand why more folks don't play the tees that fit their game and the hole.  Why is it necessary to play only one color tee?

My course has a black-blue white combo that plays at a fun 6600 yards or so, similar to the blues in length.  It's a much better layout for me.  It isn't on the card, but is sloped and rated etc.  The fact that it is a blend of three tees makes for a good mix.

I have seen a blue-black combo at Big Sky in Pemberton BC.  It is on the card, sloped and rated.

[William_G]

At Eugene we rated it and sloped it for the combos... pretty simple to have the local golf association do that and have a separate card made up full of combos leaving the standard card traditional. Not many people use it, as it is a carryover from desert/cart golf where you look at the card and drive to a tee, LOL. Good customer service for the members and hopefully fractionally better speed of play.

[Pete_Pittock]

Cliff,
The combo tees are a specific conglemeration of holes. In order to post, you must play the course as routed (you can use net pars for a deviation). Your course can pick any holes the want and ask the state organizing for rating/slope. If, after a period of play your find a different meld, reapply for a new rating/slope (but don't wear out the privilege)

The state organization rates each hole from each tee, so your rating and slope are each a sum of eighteen ratings. For a combo course sort of cut and paste.

[Doug Siebert]

I've seen all sorts of combinations, for back tees I think I've played every color of the rainbow including red along with some oddball things like crowns and diamonds.  I had always thought that making the front tees some color other than red is a good idea to allow shorter hitting seniors and boys just starting out feel like its OK to play them.  I hadn't ever thought about the psychology of men always wanting to play "white" or "blue" tees, but I guess for older guys it probably makes sense since the meaning of those colors was pretty standardized back in the days of two or three teeboxes.

It would probably be better for everyone if it was somewhat standardized, like ski slopes.  A course with a high rating and slope might have double black diamond tees and black diamond tees for its longest sets, while an easy muni would have greens and blues for its longest sets.  Then a golfer who knows what he's capable of would have a better chance of matching his ability to the tees, instead of going by color (which is meaningless) or yardage (most look only at that and don't take slope & par into account)

On the other hand, someone who skis once or twice a year takes a physical risk if he hits a double black diamond slope that he doesn't have the ability to handle, whereas a 20 handicapper risks nothing other than a 120+ score and miserable five hour plus slog if he chooses the golf equivalent

[Mark Saltzman]

A course I belonged to as a junior, Hawk Ridge (north of Toronto) changed their tee colours last year.

When I was a junior member, there were 4 sets of tees: Blue 7000 yards; White 6500 yards; Red 6100 Yards; Yellow 5300 yards.

I played nearly 500 rounds there and never did I see a non-senior man play either the red or yellow tees.  To them, red=ladies, so no way were they playing the 6100 yard red tees.

This past year I visited the course a few times (as I do every year) and they had switched the tee colours so that they are now: Black, blue, white, yellow.  And guess what, most men still play the white tees, but they are 400 yards shorter!

I enquired in the golf shop and they said pace of play is better by about 10 minutes/round. Makes sense.

[Carl Johnson]

We did that 4 or so years ago.  Back to front: Black, Blue; White; Green; plus 3 in-between mixed courses, all rated and sloped for men.  (As I recall, only the green and white are rated and sloped for women.)  I do not know what our club's staff would say, but my experience is that in general the older men are playing shorter tees than before, and liking it better.  However, again based on random observation, many younger men still seem to like to play tees that are, frankly, over their heads.

One consequence of so many tee options, based on the people I play with, is that not all golfers accept the USGA handicap adjustments that should be made when golfers playing a match against each other play from different tees.  This means that in some of our informal senior matches, for example, where some guys play white and others green, the handicap differential is not sufficiently adjusted.  Thus, if you are going to adjust downward the handicaps of guys who move up from the white to the green tee, the downward adjustment among certain players is not as much as the USGA handicap procedures call for.  From my personal standpoint, this is not a big deal -- not worth pushing.  I'm just happy to have someone to play with.  However, I think it is at least a technical issue with the proliferation of tees and the positive trend of really encouraging golfers to play from the tees that suit their games the best.

[Matthew Rose]

There seems to be a Pavlovian response in the male golfer's brain that responds to the white tee marker as the "correct" one, regardless of where it sits in the order.

I worked at a course that went blue-white-gold-red and I encouraged them to try changing it to g-b-w-r as an experiment, but I could never convince anyone to do it. By the end of every summer, the white markers had been moved up to where the gold ones were anyway because the surfaces on the gold teeing areas were always pristine from disuse, while the other tee pads were chewed up.

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