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Ran Morrissett

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Ballyhack course profile is posted
« on: July 16, 2010, 04:39:57 PM »
Before play commenced at this year's Open, Gary Player gave a great interview on the Golf Channel. He said that golf where you were 160 yards and you automatically reached for your 7 iron just didn't excite him near as much as '...links golf where you have to play by instinct.' He went on to talk about playing by feel and learning to trust what your eyes were telling you etc. His use of the word 'instinct' particularly resonated with me and there are very few courses on the left side of the pond where 'instinct' applies.

Ballyhack is one such rare exception. The key ingredients for great golf are all found here - width, central hazards, multi-playing routes, greens with interesting contours that are open in front, and brick hard playing conditions. This is the exact sort of big, bouncy golf that Player was referring to - do I land the ball ten yards short of the fourth green and let the ground contours feed the ball onto this green that slopes from front to back? Which route do I take on the 2nd, 8th and 15th holes? How do I use the green contours to get a ball close on the short one shot 17th? There are some good photos in the course profile and wait till you see the 15th where there are several zig-zag ways to play around the natural ravine that George captured within the playing corridor.

Located in Windy Gap outside of Roanoke, Virginia, Ballyhack's routing shifts back and forth on each nine so that the golfer tackles the wind from ever shifting directions. Seeing a tee ball bounce hard right off the sloping tight fairway and skirt past the central bunkers at the second is as appealing a sight as can be found in this part of the world. In fact, once you experience it, playing conventional golf elsewhere with soft conditions during the humid summer months is a huge comedown. Still, some people simply prefer parkland golf, which is why golf is great. You are free to choose as we saw on the recent Kinloch/Ballyhack thread.

Personally, give me the lower humidity and playing conditions afforded by being 1100ft plus above sea level. Throw in some wind and this area in the Roanoke Valley serves as the basis for golf at its most interesting. There are posers and then there are the real deals - and a fast running Ballyhack is the real deal. Congratulations to Lester George and Bill Kubly for continuing to add to the American golf landscape in such an impressively original manner.

Cheers,

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2010, 06:28:13 PM »
In taking a page from The Scrambler's (Kevin Lynch's) book, I will not look at this profile...we will be at Ballyhack in two days and I do not wish to spoil the surprise.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

John Moore II

Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2010, 09:40:06 PM »
I have to ask, are we really at the end of the Second Golden Age? Seems to me the designers we most associate with this second age, Bill Coore, Tom Doak, David McLay Kidd, and now I suppose, given his work at Kinloch and Ballyhack, Lester George, are all fairly young men. Given the rough average age of these guys, roughly 50, we have 30+ years more of these guys designing courses if they design into their 70's and 80's like Pete Dye and Robert Trent Jones. Seems to me that we might be just in the middle of this Second Golden Age.

John Kirk

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2010, 11:38:55 AM »
Great job, Lester.  This is quite the endorsement, my friend.

Carl Rogers

Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2010, 06:12:28 PM »
Last year, Scott Weersing and I were Lester's guest and played a round there.  Yes, quite a course.
The two nines are separated by a road.  I was left by the great deal of difference in the scale and feel of the property between the two sides of the road.  The front nine was much larger in scale.  The back much more intimate.  It is a very hard walk ... very hard.

For me, very good courses have to be played a few more times before a more definitive review is possible.

Wade Whitehead

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2010, 09:01:11 PM »
We just wrapped the 75th Roanoke Valley Match Play Championship, which was contested at Ballyhack.  It was astounding to watch the golf course respond to the variety of strategy and shots through qualifying rounds and subsequent match play.  I look forward to discussing them sometime down the road.

Bottom line: Every time I play it I learn something new.

Ran, thanks for a fantastic profile.

WW

Mike Cirba

Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2010, 06:30:10 PM »
Ran,

Terrific profile and mouth-watering pictures.

I'm excited to get out to Ballyhack later this year, and to hear it's being maintained "bouncy" is the coup de grace.

Thanks for providing such a wonderful preview.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2010, 02:21:39 PM »
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 02:50:15 PM »
Congrats Lester - it says a great deal when Ran says the course is even better than Kinloch. The photo from 210 yards out on #4 looks a bit Redan-like to me and a whole lot of fun.  The grass around the bunkers has an unusual appearance in its contrast to the fairways and the taller fescue type grasses and I really like to know more about it. 

Lester George

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2010, 03:56:30 PM »
Ran,

Thanks for the kind words and review.  I believe Ballyhack will live up to the comments you made.  I agree that it is not everyones type of golf, sadly.  Thanks for playing it and thanks for "getting" it.

Jerry,

The grass pattern varies fron bentgrass tees, fairways, greens to a blend of fecues (fines in the rough and out of play areas) to a fescue/blue blend around the features which was used to control contamination of the bent and stop erosion.  Some of that will start to be replaced this year as we want just the fine fescues in the outers.

Lester

Carl Nichols

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2010, 09:50:41 PM »
Great review and the course looks terrific.  One question/quibble -- can the approximate 3-degree temperature difference between 1,110 feet and sea level really have much to do with how Ballyneal plays? 

Mike_Trenham

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2010, 10:20:24 PM »
The question is not if the daily highs are 3 degrees different, what are the daily lows?  When I lived close to the blue ridge mountains further north, the days were hot yes but the nights and mornings were quite cool in my unscientific opinion (I would need a sweater in September in the evening often).  Yes it is bad for the turf to get baked everyday but if it has a chance to cool off each night it seems to promote a better chance for survial and thus to be pushed.

Courses in this region are typically pretty poorly conditioned.  It will be interesting to see if Ballyhack with all the modern agronomy knowlege going in and going forward can remain a standout on that level.  BTW the conditioning at Lester George's other standout VA design Kinloch is out of this world but more akin to ANGC.

I was really surprised not to see holes #1, #9 or #11 profiled.  Those were standout holes for me.  While I did not think #11 was out of this world it connected two pretty awsome portions of the course via a short yet challenging and playable hole, one that was more intimidating in appearances off the tee (carry vs. width) but harder than it looked on the card (distance vs. uphill).  I was surprised to read Ran's opinion of #13 as that was one of my least favorite holes, yet the tricks employed that Ran mentions are of interesting note and the details most of us miss.

Proud member of a Doak 3.

Carl Nichols

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2010, 10:57:35 PM »
Mike-
I'm just going off the average temp difference for altitude, ie, for every 1000 feet of altitude, you lose approximately 3 degrees of average temp. But you're right -- the average doesn't tell you about highs or lows.

But at 1100 feet Ballyhack is only about 700 feet higher than the highest point in DC....

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 08:22:43 AM »
Links-like versus some new terminology...

I feel that courses like Ballyhack should not feel the need to define themselves as links-like.  There is no question in my mind that Ballyhack plays fast and firm, as those on this site like to say.  There is no question that Ballyhack presents a multiplicity of options for tee shots, second shots, and approach shots, on every hole.  There is no question that Ballyhack offers putting surfaces that accept shots of all trajectories and allow for a variety of paths to the hole.

I ask (sounding quite uppity), doesn't this type of course deserve its own distinctive moniker?  Too many courses that are not, describe themselves as links-like, often resulting in a look askance and a knowing wink.

Ballyhack is a ridge-line course, located not in the mountains, but in the foothills below the Blue Ridge line (as I gather).  What might we call a highland course with links features and playability?  I think, given the collective intelligence and wisdom of this site, we might create a list of candidates for a new terminology to describe this type of course, one the we might love, that does not rope it to the term "links."

Now open for submissions...
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Lester George

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 02:58:46 PM »
Carl,

I think as important to your discussion of temperature is the discussion of humidity.  Not saying it doesn't get steamy at Ballyhack, but on average, I think the relative humidity is lower and provides a better growing medium for cool season grasses than most of the rest of theTransition Zone experiences.  As noted above, Kinloch is certainly a good example of how to maintain cool season grass in the lower elevations of the Transition Zone, but Ballyhack is finely conditioned as well and at about half the expense.

Lester

Ulrich Mayring

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2010, 05:05:47 PM »
Is there a name for that cutout style of bunkering? I've seen that on a recently opened local course as well.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Lester George

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2010, 05:56:53 PM »
Ulrich,

I have called them Gouges, Scours, Blowouts, and Knarls.  We call the little interior islands "tumps" and sometimes clods.

I am sure there are many names used by others.

Lester

Jay Flemma

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2010, 11:42:19 PM »
I played the course Monday and liked it a great deal.  The start is perhaps the best part...the best false front I have ever seen...utterly brutal...every bit as strategically arresting as any opening hole I've seen save NGLA.  Two and three are all-world.  A redan with a thumbprint in the back half...inspired!

Great greens at 17 and 18 as well.

Pix and a review coming as soon as I get back to NYC Friday.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Ken Fry

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Re: Ballyhack course profile is posted
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2010, 06:41:51 PM »
Count me as a big fan of Ballyhack!

After touring the course and briefly meeting Lester last summer, I got the opportunity to play the course a few weeks ago.  As is always the case, playing the course and touring it are quite different.  Playing was even more fun than I had anticipated.

Kingsley is one of my favorite places on the planet so if I draw parallels between the two courses, it's meant as a compliment.  Photos can't capture the depth and vastness of the property.  The view from the high points of the property on the opening nine holes (1st green, 2nd tee and 6th tee for example) are spectacular.  The front nine at both Kingsley and Ballyhack strike a similar cord with me because they are both very open, exceptionally rolling, provide some expansive views and offer so many shot options.  The back tees are LONG but very manageable because of course conditioning.  Ballyhack plays firm and fast so placement of shots carries much more importance than shear length.  Only one hole ate my lunch from the back tees:  the 250 yard par 3 3rd.  The day I played it was 261 to the pin.  The hole plays slightly downhill so again distance isn't everything but WOW, what a green complex.  A 3 at Ballyhack's 3rd hole is something to be proud of!  So many shots were memorable:  The opening tee shot looks so much further, the tee shot on #2 felt like it would never land, deciding what to do on #6 tee, negotiating #15 down that massive hill, beating a drive off #16 tee, trying to find the right place on #17 green from the tee and those are just a few that immediately come to mind.

Ran's profile of Ballyhack is spot on.  There are so many holes to highlight I don't have the talent to describe them better than Ran has.  My one knock on the course?  You just can't walk the place.  Given not only the hilly terrain but the ravines that separate a few holes from the tees, it's certainly understandable.  What's obvious about the project is Lester spent a lot of time on the property.  There are so many small touches of visual deception similar to what Mike DeVries did at Kingsley and Tom Doak did at Lost Dunes.  I envy the members who will have the opportunity to play Ballyhack numerous times and explore all the subtleties.

Ballyhack is worth a special trip and a great project from Lester George.

Ken Fry