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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Is Addington in Trouble?
« on: August 12, 2010, 09:26:34 AM »
I received this email (along with previous emails) advertizing a deal at the course.  This is a good price by anyone's measure for such a quality course as Addington.  I just hope it isn't indicative of troubles.  Anyway, foks should take advantage of this deal!

"As a valued Altonwood customer I am delighted to offer you our exclusive summer green fees:

MONDAY - THURSDAY:
18 HOLES - £40 / DAY TICKET £50

FRIDAYS AND WEEKENDS (After 12pm):
18 HOLES - £50"

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23460.0/

Ciao
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 09:28:26 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Brent Hutto

Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2010, 09:39:02 AM »
Sean,

How do you think The Addington is viewed by a weekend golfer who maybe played there once with some friend? Is it the sort of thing that will be well received by a casual player with double-digit handicap? Or do you think their situation is complicated by the difficulty and quirkiness of the course and for that matter of the walk?

Jon Earl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2010, 12:13:03 PM »
Sean

I guess Noades must be feeling the pinch like a lot of places. For instance, my club (5 minutes down the road from the Addington) has lost 40 members net this year and seen a drop in societies and visitor play. The Add will be no different.

Noades is a business man first and foremost and has a bit of 'previous' when it comes to taking over clubs and gradually turning them into glorified pay-and-play courses to the detriment of the members. I wouldn't be too happy to have dropped £2,500 in annual subs for this to happen. But he is the owner and he spent a lot buying the club and making improvements.

Brent makes a good point. The Add is not everyone's cup of tea and  I suspect that a number of casual golfers would not return even at the reduced rate. But the new rates are a bit of a bargain for those that love the place.
Splosh! One of the finest sights in the world: the other man's ball dropping in the water - preferably so that he can see it but cannot quite reach it and has therefore to leave it there, thus rendering himself so mad that he loses the next hole as well.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2010, 05:14:06 PM »
I'd say the opposite to trouble, just Noades making money.
Cave Nil Vino

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2010, 07:03:40 PM »
Sean,

When I visited there last year with Tony and Scott I found the entire place to be a bit worn around the edges, with a good deal of upkeep needed to the facilities. Overall, it had that "trim the expenses" look. This is strictly perception on my part, but it seems to have been pulling a heavy load for some time.

Mike
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2010, 07:24:06 PM »
Since I actually contemplate to play The Addington on the 27th of August, what do I have to do to get this price? The website still has the old price, which would be £80. The wording from the email seems to suggest it is only for "Altonwood customers"?

Kind regards,

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2010, 09:28:11 PM »
Boy I sure hope not, this is near the top of my must-play list...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2010, 02:04:23 AM »
I just forwarded you the email, Ulrich. It's not personalised, so I can't see why you couldn't use it.

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2010, 05:38:11 PM »
Well, after playing it today, here are some guesses why they might have halved the greenfee:

1) The course is soggy.
2) The fairways are more mud than grass.
3) The bunkers are hard-pan.
4) The greens are slow and don't roll true.
5) Standing water on the tees.

Granted, it did rain this week. But then I read Bernard Darwin speaking of The Addington as "a land of sand and heather" and on Top100GolfCourses.co.uk it is stated that "It really is a delightful place to be, especially in the winter, because the sandy course drains perfectly and remains bone dry underfoot".

I have not seen any of this. There are a few, mostly decorative patches of heather, but the soil is drenched there as well. I don't know what the soil was like in Darwin's time or whenever the guy from the other review played it. All I can say is that I have seen wetter courses and loamier soil, but not in the UK.

Alwoodley, which I played yesterday under the same conditions, was an altogether different story. Lots of heather, very playable fairways, the greens obviously slower due to the weather, but they rolled true. I did not have to clean my shoes yesterday, whereas today they had to recharge the air gun for me.

Ulrich
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 05:40:50 PM by Ulrich Mayring »
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2010, 05:54:04 PM »
It rained like cats n dogs last few days, if you get 3 days of heavy rain your course wont be good. Deete your opinion and come back when there is no rain.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2010, 05:54:19 PM »
Sorry you found it like that Ulrich, it can't have been much fun.

We have had (near) biblical rain in spots over the past few days in the south - but I'm still surprised.  I know a member and at the beginning of the month it was apparently all browned off - accounting for the lack of grass in what until now has been a good summer.  I'm also surprised by Darwin because the soil (like Walton Heath) is a clay loam over gravel, hence it normally dries out well.  I can't explain why he found so much Heather but you're right it is very thin these days.  Maintenance practices should be questioned.

It's hard to warm to a place when you're splashing round it...
Let's make GCA grate again!

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2010, 05:59:24 PM »
I am a couple of miles away and it has rained torrentially for much pof the last 8-10 days.

I'm sorry you experienced the course like that Ulrich, because it isn't usually in that state.

Still, conditon aside, what did you think?

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2010, 04:45:44 PM »
I have been in the UK the last four weeks and the last week in England, so I know what the weather was like. And I have played other courses in the same timeframe, such as Alwoodley, which were in an altogether better state. I also believe that with 135 courses reviewed in all sorts of conditions (and played more than that) I have grounds to at least form a personal opinion and voice it.

If I cannot play a run up shot to #3 or #13, because the ball lands, makes a splash and stops in its own pitchmark, how am I supposed to rate these as great holes? The holes clearly were designed for such a shot and I like to think the visitors come to The Addington for exactly that experience. It's like going to a movie and there is no sound - it may be one hell of a movie, but if the sound system is broken, they should not open the theatre.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2010, 05:05:42 PM »
Quote
If I cannot play a run up shot to #3 or #13, because the ball lands, makes a splash and stops in its own pitchmark, how am I supposed to rate these as great holes?

Because you should be able to account for the weather. Do you genuinely think the condition you saw the course in was not dictated by the recent weather?

The course doesn't have fairway watering. More often than not the complaint in summer is that it's too hard and fast.

Aug 23, The Guardian: Heavy rain brings floods and road chaos to southern England

A photo from this weekend's Reading Festival:
« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 05:11:14 PM by Scott Warren »

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2010, 05:11:13 PM »
I have been in the UK the last four weeks and the last week in England, so I know what the weather was like. And I have played other courses in the same timeframe, such as Alwoodley, which were in an altogether better state. I also believe that with 135 courses reviewed in all sorts of conditions (and played more than that) I have grounds to at least form a personal opinion and voice it.

If I cannot play a run up shot to #3 or #13, because the ball lands, makes a splash and stops in its own pitchmark, how am I supposed to rate these as great holes? The holes clearly were designed for such a shot and I like to think the visitors come to The Addington for exactly that experience. It's like going to a movie and there is no sound - it may be one hell of a movie, but if the sound system is broken, they should not open the theatre.

Ulrich
Ulrich- I think you just got The Addington on a very wet day. I expect the course was very close to being closed. In the UK it is usually the greens that dictate course closure. A course would not closed because its not F&F. Most UK courses have fairways that are soggy in the winter time, not many will be F&F for the most part of the 365 days.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2010, 06:12:32 PM »
Quote
More often than not the complaint in summer is that it's too hard and fast.

My experience is that all clay-based courses get muddy when it rains and hard-pan when it doesn't. That is exactly why sand-based soil is considered ideal for golf, as it offers year-round playability. Obviously there is some variation depending on the weather, but the sand-based courses I have seen, always played true to their design intent. That sort of was what I expected after reading the quoted statements about The Addington.

Now, maybe Darwin got it wrong and the soil isn't very sandy. Or I got his quote wrong. Or there is actually a problem with the course itself. For one thing, the greens weren't rolling true. Now, don't get me wrong, they were still ok, but not great.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2010, 06:31:42 PM »
As far as I know heather doesn't grow very well in clay, Ulrich (there isn't a heap of heather, granted, but there is a decent amount).

The soil, as the exposed face of bunkers like that short of 17 show, is gravelly and somewhat sandy.


Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2010, 07:00:39 PM »
I can confirm gravelly, there are many stones in the bunkers, too. Also, the paths are very gravelly, which is ok for walking or carting, but uncomfortable for trolleys.

By the way, Pennink also includes The Addington in his compendium, so it must have had great playing surfaces in his time. Some of the tees are definitely built up with clay, though.

I'll look over my photos, maybe I can post something as well.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2010, 07:48:08 PM »
Ulrich

For what its worth I agree with you.  The London heathland courses in general are nowhere near as well draining as their reputations might suggest and Addington is one of the poorer draining ones of the lot and it has a reputation for spotty conditioning.  My old course, Droitwich, is built on clay and drains just as well as the heathlands if not better.  However, wet or dry (I think Addington works better when it isn't keen), Addington is right on the edge of a great course and comparable to the conceded greats in terms of design.  Anyway, here is hoping that the interest in recovering lost heather on these courses will improve the drianage.  

Ciao
« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 07:51:03 PM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2010, 04:12:05 AM »
Sean,

When we played there in March, you might recall it had rained more than a little in the preceeding 2-3 days, but how far did your drive on the 6th run? Granted our balls hung up on the hill on 16 and didn't get the full benefit of the slope, so it was slower than usual, but for balls to be plugging short of the 3rd and 13th greens is remarkably atypicial.

You are right that the heathland courses don't drain as well as their links cousins, or indeed as they are given credit for.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2010, 05:28:03 AM »
Sean,

When we played there in March, you might recall it had rained more than a little in the preceeding 2-3 days, but how far did your drive on the 6th run? Granted our balls hung up on the hill on 16 and didn't get the full benefit of the slope, so it was slower than usual, but for balls to be plugging short of the 3rd and 13th greens is remarkably atypicial.

You are right that the heathland courses don't drain as well as their links cousins, or indeed as they are given credit for.

Scott

While balls may not often plug on #s 3 and 13, I haven't seen any real keeness in these areas.  Balls typically hit and stop if landing short.  I certainly don't think of #13 as a bounce up  hole.  I just accept it is one tough sob and a four ain't a bad score. 

The problem with Addy is the squelchiness when it rains.  Lies are often bareish on the fairway and when wet sort of collect in the lower, mud spots.  In other words, the fairways don't have a very good turf cover.  That said, I am not too bothered about this sort of stuff unless I suspect it is a real issue impacting enjoyment for long stretches of the year.  I don't think this is the case at Addy, but even if it is bordeline the design is compelling enough to overcome these shortcomings.   

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2010, 06:10:58 AM »
For what it's worth, no matter what the underlying soil is, a century of decomposition of turf thatch will develop a layer of humus.  If wet, it will compact, and we all know that compacted soils A) don't drain freely and B) are difficult conditions to keep a quality sward of turf.  From the picture of the gravel layer exposed by the bunker, I wouldn't expect a sand layer above, it look like a glacial aluvial outwash.

In much of the States, courses are on clay-loam and require routine aerification to punch through compacted layers to allow roots to grow deep.  We also know that short, shallow roots prevalent in compacted soils will crap out in hot, draughty weather. I have never been to Addington, I can't speak from experience, but, from the posts, it sounds the course could use some agronomic help. Breaking through the hardpan to allow access to the gravel would help drainage. Also, if the growing medium above the gravel is thin, it could lead to draughty condition if, as reported, there is no supplimental irrigation available.
Coasting is a downhill process

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2010, 07:07:43 AM »
Here are some pictures. The first two are from Alwoodley, which I played the day before The Addington, which means one day closer to the downpour the previous two days. Bone dry:




And here are three pictures from The Addington. For the life of me I cannot understand that they even allow carts in these conditions. On my homecourse, which isn't 20% of the course that The Addington is, they would not even have allowed trolleys:




Ulrich
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 07:11:20 AM by Ulrich Mayring »
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2010, 08:34:11 AM »
The Addington certainly looks in poor condition in those pics, Ulrich. It's a real disappointment that you caught it in such a wet state.

Alwoodley looks great. Did you see Nick Leefe when you visited?

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Addington in Trouble?
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2010, 12:20:53 PM »
The Addington certainly looks in poor condition in those pics, Ulrich. It's a real disappointment that you caught it in such a wet state.

Alwoodley looks great. Did you see Nick Leefe when you visited?

That first picture of Alwoodley is stunning with the heather in full bloom.  I promptly set it as my desktop, thanks Ulrich!

I think Nick is down in Cork at the Mackenzie Cup right about now, lucky devil.

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