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Ed Oden

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Re: Are there any other holes that can be called Template holes...
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2010, 11:49:48 PM »
The "dolomites" at Somerset Hills...





John Moore II

Re: Are there any other holes that can be called Template holes...
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2010, 12:58:47 AM »
I was examining the scorecard and some aerial photos of Tamarack and was reminded of the following

1.  another template that I don't believe was mentioned is "Drive and Pitch"
2.  here was another example of an opening "Valley" hole
3.  both #9 and #18 have hole names/styles that I think are individual to this Banks' course
     ...."Moat"
     ...."Strategy"
     
here's a compendium of what this thread has yielded so far as to "Template" holes

first, the CBM-Raynor-Banks school

1.  Valley - downhill opener 350-400 yards Origin: A CBM original
2.  Sahara - involves a long blind carry over visually imposing sand hazard which shortens hole significantly. Origin :Sandwich
3.  Alps - longer 2 shot hole with second playing uphill to blind green that is nestled in bunkers.  Origin:  Prestwick
4.  Redan - "well-known" style Origin:  North Berwick
5.  Reverse Redan - as name implies however with greater changes observed in elevation Origin: 2nd generation CBM original
6.  Hog's Back - ????
7.  Short - usually a 130-160 yard hole, downhill in elevation with significant interior green contours and bunkers in play.  origin:  ???
8.  Road/St.Andrews - well-known, road most often replicated with bunker:  origin St. Andrews
9.  Bottle - a two shotter where tee shot is pinched by bunker array and forces choice of side, almost creating two narrow fairways Origin:  12th at Sunningdale
10. Long - odes to St. Andrews 14th with great variation based on topography, usually straight and non-doglegging.
11. Plateau-double Plateau - speaks to the green which is generally found to have one plateau short left, one back right and swale in between Origin:????
12. Eden - ode to 11th St. Andrews
13. Cape - a two shot hole that is defined by green jutting out into hazard of sand or water - Origin: CBM original
14. Narrows - ????
15.  Punchbowl - referencing the shot to green which is usually blind to sunken bowl - Origin????
16.  Leven - medium length two shotter with sight/distance reward for choosing long aggressive tee shot on well defended side: Origin:  (someone said, but I can't remember)
17.  Biarritz:  Well-known, modeled after now-defunct hole in French Atlantic resort.
18.  Maiden:  Raynor left others to name his holes and the name Maiden was bequeathed to his holes that feature high left and right plateaus with a gulley between them (his Maiden holes have nothing to do with the blind par three Maiden hole that once existed at Royal St. George’s).
19. Raynor's Prize dog -leg - long two shot hole with water hazard bisecting hole vertically presenting challenges for tee and second shot.  origin:  Raynor original
20.  Drive and Pitch - as implied, the intended examination is heaped on the short second shot - Origin:  ????
21.  Knoll - a 360-420 yard two-shot hole where green is defended by volcanic topography as much as any hazard. 
22.  Lido/channel hole - 

We've also discussed regarding other architects

23.  Island green
24.  volcano
25.  Bunker in the middle (Donut) of green
26   Dolomites  (???)
27.  Skyline
29.  double dog-leg
30.  switchback
31.  the postage stamp
32. Double Cape-Par 5 with both tee shot and second shot giving the player the chance to cut the corner. Origin-??, example: #5 Whistling Straits

any info you can add to sharpen or expand the list is much-appreciated

cheers

vk

 


RJ_Daley

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Re: Are there any other holes that can be called Template holes...
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2010, 11:42:21 AM »
vinnie, I'm not that well travelled.  The original as far as I know was Thomas's at Riv.  Perhaps it is modelled in concept to a pot bunker that isn't exactly on the official green at TOC or another old links course, but the manner of the turf there makes it look like the middle of a green, maybe like Shell bunker at the Eden.  I really don't know.  The only two other bunker in the middle greens I can think of are Axeland and Proctor's very good one at Bayside in Ogallala.  It is a real beauty.  Then, the bunker in the green on the Nicklaus course in Hawaii (can't think of course name...)

But, I'd bet there are others.  The ideal is so unique, and singularly distinctive, that if done elsewhere, I believe it is a copy of the original idea, making it in my mind a template.

But, there are lots of boomers.  All of them have various orientations, as far as what position on the clock that the bunker causes the boomer green to surround.  Most of them are near the front.  But, like #7 at Crystal Downs, some are around the side.  Hanse-Shackelfords Rustic Canyon #13, Sand Hills #8, Lions' mouth #16 CCofC, Whistling #6, are some that come to mind.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Adam Clayman

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Re: Are there any other holes that can be called Template holes...
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2010, 11:55:21 AM »
Mike P.  The penultimate hole at Egan's Eastmoreland is not technically an island, but, for all intents and purposes is an island par 3. It dates back to the 20's.

Oneo fthe early commercial courses, The El Campeon has island green on a par 4. It's date is 1926. Bothe the above examples use railroad ties, too, if I'm not mistaken.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Anthony Gray

Re: Are there any other holes that can be called Template holes...
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2010, 12:00:42 PM »


  The blind par 3..Himilayas.

  Anthony


Brian Freeman

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Re: Are there any other holes that can be called Template holes...
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2010, 01:06:15 PM »
VKM,
Holes where the green is perched way above the fairway, mainly a par 3, but also used on 4s and 5s. The green can be stand-alone or nestled in a hillside.  
Examples are many and can be found on quite a few old threads. Bob Labbance once wrote an article on them for NE magazine.
Here's one:


The 6th at Dornoch is also a great example of this "template"

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