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Scott Warren

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This quote by Sean Arble in another thread tied in with something that has been doing laps of my head since I played Worplesdon.

I think heathland courses are so loved because they almost naturally have the transitions (to the edges of the property or rough) already in place. All it takes is for the carers to keep the heather heathy and accept that for bunkers to work on these courses, they need to tie in with the heather somehow. There is such a stark difference when the bunkering is left starnded from heather on heathland courses as to when they are properly tied in.  

I have been feeling since Sunday that while not ugly and certainly extremely functional, there was something about the bunkering at Worpy that didn't blend seemlessly with the general nature of the property.

Looking back through my pics of other heathland courses for comparison, I was struck by just how greatly the bunkering in the region varies, particularly when we are talking about courses very near to each other that were mostly built over 10 or 15 years by many of the same guys, who regularly worked together.

The rolled face bunker is certainly much more prevalent than I remembered, and I love the aged/distressed revetment you see here and there. That aged, mossy revetted face look just seems to match the character of those courses.

I'm interested to hear what others think about the best styles of bunkering present on the heathland, from the examples below and also from others I haven't played that I am sure will have something to bring to the party (Sunningdale, Woodhall Spa, St George's Hill, perhaps a few of the French heathland courses).

Is it as simple as lacing the bunker lips with heather? I am sure it isn't that easy or obvious, but that simple feature never seems to look out of place or "wrong". Why is that?

Is this perhaps one of those very crucisal areas where greenkeepers have a great deal of influence on the architecture?

In their ability to shape and scale bunkers in line with the character of the site and change their approach as the land dictates, is this where the absolute best identify themselves?

Alwoodley Lots of rolled faces, but the new work is more along flashed face lines.



Hankley Common very low profile bunkering - close to the ground.



New Zealand Maybe the best all-round bunkering effort on a heathland course? Only 50 of them, used so masterfully.



Swinley Forest Bond and full of character, much like the land.



The Addington Brutal, but gorgeous and generally of the flashed face variety.


The Berkshire Some serious mish-mash present. Interested to see what Tim Lobb does as there is definite room for refinement.



Walton Heath Just brilliant in terms of sizing, placement and scale IMO.



West Sussex A lot of new work going more to the flashed face style - I've heard many comparisons with Melbourne sandbelt.



Woking Seemed to pair bunkers crawling with heather with simpler rolled face traps and some flashed faces.



Worplesdon Lots of very clean lines and rolled faces.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 11:37:39 AM by Scott Warren »

Mac Plumart

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Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2010, 02:13:29 PM »
Scott...

you say, "I'm interested to hear what others think about the best styles of bunkering present on the heathland"

I wish like heck I could answer.  Give me some time, I'll get there.  Those pictures look awesome. 
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2010, 02:30:59 PM »
Scott,

Good on you for risking the wrath of the Bunker Slut Police, those photos are certainly worth it. If I was to pick a style out of the ones you posted I too would go for New Zealand followed by Swinley. I also agree that its nice to see older sand faced and degraded revetted bunkers. The modern roll top style with flat bottom sand bunker is not for me but seems to becoming ubiquitious (my big word fo the day  ;)) replacing a lot of these old bunkers. How much of that is down to the green keeper or GCA advising I don't know but I think its a shame in any case.

I think GCA is like any other area of design in that there are fads and trends and I guess that style of bunkering is one of them.

Niall

ps. surely thats not the straight hitting Mike Whittaker fishing his ball out the bunker, is it ?

Ben Stephens

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Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2010, 02:50:20 PM »
Scott

Where is the mighty bunkers of Woodhall Spa?????? - probably the best set of bunkers on a heathland course and a couple of elephants could be buried in a few of them ;D.

(I would say that Ganton is better overall but its not really a heathland course)

Cheers
Ben

Emil Weber

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Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2010, 02:56:07 PM »
I am a bunker slut  ;).

From your pictures I like the New Zealand, Walton Heath and West Sussex (2nd pic only) bunkers, why, I don't know they just look more appealing.

Carl Rogers

Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2010, 04:55:30 PM »
For those of you who know more than I, which type is less maintenance?  The 'flat bottomed' type??

Perhaps this criteria should not count ....

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2010, 05:33:06 PM »
Scott,

Would you stop posting pictures of all these heathland courses down near the big smoke that I've not got round to playing yet!  ;D

I must say that from just those pictures, the New Zealand bunkers seem to very easily and naturally cover several different styles all in one bunker.

I liked this one on the 15th at Berkshire Blue that just blends into the surrounding vegetation, not just the heather...


And Ben is right, the DEPTH of the bunkers at Woodhall Spa is yet another variety of heathland bunkering and needs to be seen to be believed!

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2010, 05:37:32 PM »
Niall - New Zealand is so low profile they'll ban you for mentioning their name!!

Anyone got any Woodhall Spa bunker pictures especially the 5th and 12th??
Cave Nil Vino

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2010, 05:41:25 PM »
Ben and James you both know where to stick the fork! Woodhall is one place I desperately want to see but as the clock ticks down on my time in the UK (about eight weeks...) it looks like I am going to run out of time.

That was a really cool bunker on #15 of the Blue at Berkshire. Just goes to show how shite the one short on #5 Red and left of the green on #18 Blue were. I mean I have seen some fugly bunkers in my time but those two make Lady Gaga look good, and that takes some doing!

I have to say, I do enjoy the random shapes of revetted bunkers you get on the heathlands (the bottom pic of Walton Heath [#11 on the Old, that is] is a good example). Some really great bunkers of that style are around the place and I have at times wondered if some links courses' bunkers might benefit from some more adventurous shaping (at least 95% of Deal's would be round/oval)

Ben Stephens

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Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2010, 05:50:28 PM »
Scott + Boony,

Lets try and make a trip to Woodhall before Mr Warren leaves Blighty!

I can pick Scott up at Grantham Station and drive on to Woodhall.

Its normally in good condition towards Autumn maybe in Late September / early October. This is a must see! These bunkers are incredible like the pits of the world!

Cheers
Ben


Jamie Barber

Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2010, 06:27:36 AM »
I'm hoping to get there in Sept sometime, my inlaws live just 10 miles away

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2010, 06:38:03 AM »
Scott to answer your question all the different styles fit their environment. Unlike links where rolled top or revetting is employed to keep in the sand and secure unstable soul heathland bunkers has a character at each course. I love the heather faces at Walton Heath but would hate to see them as the stock heathland trap.
Cave Nil Vino

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best? New
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2010, 07:05:37 AM »
Unfortunately, all the clubs with the possible exception Walton Heath have a mish of stuff going on with the bunkers.  Most have at least a few beauties, but more rather blah jobbies as well.  For my money, Walton Heath and New Zealand are the best bunkered courses in the Heathlands by quite a margin.  New Zealand does a great job with its centreline bunkering and WH has the pit of despair thing going on which makes most golfers want to stay away at all costs.  I also note that these are two of the flatter heathland courses so bunkers take on a more prominent role in the design.  It is especially great how New Zealand adds such interest with its relatively small number of bunkers (and a handful could come out!).   

So far as looks, I like the rolled over turf look and it makes it possible to grow heather on the banks as well.  I think Woking's new bunkers will get a more heathery look when they mature. Though I also like the dry, crusty look faces which to me fit the heathland mould even if these bunkers are separated from the heather - The Berkshire has a lot of this style. 

A few clubs are completely off the boil with their bunkering; Camberley Heath being the biggest culprit I can think of.

A few pix of my favourite bunkers not yet shown.





   

But to be honest, Woodhall Spa probably has more great bunkers than much of the heathlands combined if we are only talking about the style rather than the placement.  However, placement beats style everytime.

Ciao
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 05:21:14 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2010, 08:01:38 AM »
Sean,

Is this what you mean by dry crusty faces to bunkers?

This is from the 15th at Berkshire Blue, this one short right of the green, the previous picture I posted being short left.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2010, 08:15:49 AM »
Sean,

Is this what you mean by dry crusty faces to bunkers?

This is from the 15th at Berkshire Blue, this one short right of the green, the previous picture I posted being short left.

Cheers,

James

Boony

Yes, that sort of thing.  Though that bunker is helped by what looks like a natural pocket shaped for sand and drainage.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2010, 08:19:55 AM »
Sean, your bottom two are 7 at NZ and 3 at Woking?

Agreed that both are brilliant. You'd put your house on that bunker on 7 at NZ being hard against the green the first time you see it, then you approach it and it's 20 yards short.

As far as one bunker completely dominating the strategy of a green complex, I've never seen it done better than 3 at Woking.

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2010, 08:23:36 AM »
My vote would go towards New Zealand as well. It was such a surprise to me the first time I played it.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2010, 08:27:05 AM »
Sean, your bottom two are 7 at NZ and 3 at Woking?

Agreed that both are brilliant. You'd put your house on that bunker on 7 at NZ being hard against the green the first time you see it, then you approach it and it's 20 yards short.

As far as one bunker completely dominating the strategy of a green complex, I've never seen it done better than 3 at Woking.

Scott

Yes, I love how that left bunker on NZ's 7th "pushes" folks right toward (and the green moves that way as well) a nasty right bunker which is hardly noticeable on the tee.  

You are right about Woking's 3rd, simplicity of design which is sublime.  

I also like the bunker on NZ's 4th not becuase its a danger off the tee (not for me, but for flat bellies it must be a worry), but because its a blinder bunker for the approach.  Get caught behind it and the obscured approach is very uncomfortable, but staying right requires good ball shaping off the tee.  

Ciao
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 08:28:53 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2010, 09:11:01 AM »
Absolutely. A month or so back I played NZ with Andrew Mitchell and Richard Pennell. Richard didn't join us until the 6th, so on 4 it was just Andrew and I. Andrew's first play, my second. We both hit good drives just down about 40 yards short of that bunker and I remember Andrew saying a lot about how he perceived the green was positioned and would play based on our slightly obscured view behind the bunker, which turned out to be wrong as we walked past it and the green presented itself.

We'd both been duped by the bunker.

I hope Andrew will chime in here and detail what it was he was picturing in his mind's eye, but suffice to say that bunker well and truly did him over!

Sean_A

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Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2010, 09:20:15 AM »
How bout this humdinger on Swinley's 12th?  Not a beauty, but what a place to be.  Its the second fairway bunker on the left - pinching the drive away from the ideal approach area.  In a bit of a visually confusing landscape from the tee, I think this bunker makes the tee shot what it is.  


Ciao
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 09:22:44 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2010, 09:26:56 AM »
Sean,

To me what stands out about that bunker is the perfect depth.

From memory I was in the fairway just short right of it and had a 5i (so 180 or so yards) to the green.

So that bunker's a mid-iron from the green for most guys.

If it were any deeper, you'd just wedge out and then play to the green, if it were only a foot deep, you'd grab a 6i or whatever and go at the green, but at that depth a fairway bunker does what I think it should and leaves you torn.

Head says pitch out, heart says "I reckon a 7i would clear it". That's a brilliant fairway bunker in my mind.

Massive, massive call, but 12 at Swinley Forest might be the best golf hole I have ever played.

Sean_A

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Re: Heathland bunkering: remarkable variety, but what works best? New
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2010, 09:32:35 AM »
Sean,

To me what stands out about that bunker is the perfect depth.

From memory I was in the fairway just short right of it and had a 5i (so 180 or so yards) to the green.

So that bunker's a mid-iron from the green for most guys.

If it were any deeper, you'd just wedge out and then play to the green, if it were only a foot deep, you'd grab a 6i or whatever and go at the green, but at that depth a fairway bunker does what I think it should and leaves you torn.

Head says pitch out, heart says "I reckon a 7i would clear it". That's a brilliant fairway bunker in my mind.

Massive, massive call, but 12 at Swinley Forest might be the best golf hole I have ever played.

Scott

You could be right about its depth, but most of the fairway bunkers (not that there are that many) at Swinley are really problematic for the likes of us to be heroic from.  

I don't know if the hole is the best I have seen, but its a cracker which had me shaking my head this past winter.  So much going on with the bunker, the slope to the right, the uphill approach and the funky green which looks like it is downhill from the fairway, but its uphill. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 09:35:03 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing