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Sven Nilsen

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South Dakota and North Dakota
« on: July 30, 2010, 12:55:08 PM »
Looking for feedback on courses in the Dakotas.  Thinking of hitting up the following:

ND - Hawktree, Bully Pulpit, Links of ND, Oxbow (I believe there is a $140 deal to play the first 3)
SD - Southern Hills, Hart Ranch, Red Rock, Prairie Green, Willow Run and Spearfish Canyon

Any of these not worth the effort?  Any additions, hidden gems?
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2010, 01:04:52 PM »
I've not played any of these, but these two states are beautiful this time of year--and their economies are booming, among the strongest in the nation.

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2010, 01:07:24 PM »
Sven,

Did you forget about Agar, SD?  Though, I'm not sure about public play. 

Matt_Ward

Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2010, 01:10:41 PM »
Try to include the likes of Meadowbrook in Rapid City -- a fine muni layout -- the other one to play is also in Rapid City -- you mentioned it Red Rock.

David Schofield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2010, 09:38:55 PM »
Get the 3-pack for the ND courses.  Heck of a deal...

One tip, don't stay in Medora, ND.  Try Dickinson instead.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2010, 11:07:11 PM »
I must confess big LOL to read it is beautiful there this time of year.  I also like the conbining both states into one too. However it is true some very good courses have been built over the last 10 years. A summer golf run is worthy for sure if one is lacking in travel imagination. And yes the Shale play has things on a roll as long as oil is over $65 barrel.

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2010, 02:16:39 AM »
ND - Hawktree, Bully Pulpit, Links of ND, Oxbow (I believe there is a $140 deal to play the first 3)
SD - Southern Hills, Hart Ranch, Red Rock, Prairie Green, Willow Run and Spearfish Canyon

I just played Oxbow the last two days, and it's in lovely condition.  It's a decen course, and one that the members--two of whom are relatives of mine--love a lot.  I'm not so sure I'd want to play there all the time.

The routing is good, and RTJ, Jr's use of the oxbow lake is pretty good.  The course's notable 18th hole is not my cup of tea.  It requires a tee shot that is hit both the right distance and direction in order to have ANY chance of going for the green on a hole that only measures about 350. The directional margin is quite reasonable, but the distance has to be in a 10-15 yard window or it's blocked out by trees.  And since both the tee ball and second shots are over the oxbow there's no room for inventiveness.

That and the fact that on holes 7-17 the fairways are basically dead flat Red River Valley cropland.

I played Prairie Green the day before I went to Oxbow.  It's a much more interesting layout, but not nearly as difficult, IMHO.  Big greens with lots of movement provide some interest. It has wide fairways and mostly light rough make it a course that doesn't beat you to death with searching for balls, but playing out of the rough is going pile up bogeys for most players.  I think I could stand playing it on a regular basis.

Red Rock is a great public course.  FWIW, I used to play with the pro there when he was in High School, in Pierre. My wife says now that she's retired she wants to get a place in Rapid City to live in the summer, and someplace south for the winter.  I only played ut once so my recollections are limited, but I loved the variety and elevation changes of the course. However, I am a dedicated walker, and I can't imagine climbing the hills there to play golf.

Spearfish Canyon is OK, but it's got some odd holes that are a product of squeezing a new nine in across the highway from the original nine.  #10 in particular is funky, and is a bit reminiscent of driving over the hotel at teh Road Hole, except that if you baile left, you're on a State Highway.

Willow Run is worth playing, although I haven't been there in about 15 years.  It was originally laid out with islands of bent grass separated by rough, but they ultimately mowed the rough down to allow more efficient pace of play.  The last time I was there was for a State Mid Am, and it pretty much ate my lunch.. and dinner too.  Mostly because of the potential for lost balls.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Rob Bice

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2010, 12:38:42 PM »
I must confess big LOL to read it is beautiful there this time of year.  I also like the conbining both states into one too. However it is true some very good courses have been built over the last 10 years. A summer golf run is worthy for sure if one is lacking in travel imagination. And yes the Shale play has things on a roll as long as oil is over $65 barrel.

Huh?  Is this code?
"medio tutissimus ibis" - Ovid

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2010, 02:44:50 PM »
Sutton Bay appears to be a no-brainer...
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2010, 01:14:22 AM »
Have to disagree with Dave Schofield. Medora, N.D. is a fantastic town, not only for Bully Pulpit (esp. back nine) but also for the faux cowboy town, book store, National Cowboy Hall of Fame (as I recall) and the fair with the theater. And how can you possibly turn down a pitchfork fondue dinner?

Garland Bayley

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Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2010, 01:37:32 AM »
Have to disagree with Dave Schofield. Medora, N.D. is a fantastic town, not only for Bully Pulpit (esp. back nine) but also for the faux cowboy town, book store, National Cowboy Hall of Fame (as I recall) and the fair with the theater. And how can you possibly turn down a pitchfork fondue dinner?

Because it's faux! Duh! Medora is what is so lovingly referred to as a tourist trap.
 :P
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

David Schofield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2010, 01:56:21 PM »
tourist trap.

Yep, case in point: the only true motel in town (not counting the "bunkhouse"...) was something like $290/night for a what would be a $70/night anywhere else.  However, I told the story of this epic tourist trap once at a party and a guy came over to me a few minutes later and said that he'd been part of the Burning Hills Singers at the Medora Musical when he was in college.  I felt about 5" tall...

rchesnut

Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2010, 01:02:10 AM »
I did the 3 back 2 years ago....Bully Pulpit, Hawktree and Links of SD, and had a great time.  I played Hawktree in a strong wind and thought it was a good, tough course.  Bully Pulpit is memorable, the setting is spectacular and the holes were very interesting....though not a great course for walkers  Links of SD was really out in the middle of nowhere, the course was empty the day we played it, it was quite a serene setting, probably my favorite of the bunch.  ND won't make too many lists for top golf getaway regions, but if you're looking for something a little off the beaten path, good value for your money, a little different, I'd highly recommend it.

For SD, I agree...make a call and get onto Sutton Bay.  It's a private course but I'm pretty sure they're still hunting for members and are probably anxious to expose the course to as many people as possible, I would imagine that  you could get on.  Again, it's not a great walkers golf course, but the holes all have terrific views of the water and it's well designed, I really enjoyed it....from my limited SD experience, it's the best course in the state.


Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2010, 07:28:36 AM »
Wouldn't the Prairie Club be a useful addition to this itinerary?  I think it is close to the SD border.

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2010, 04:59:51 PM »
Looking for feedback on courses in the Dakotas.  Thinking of hitting up the following:

ND - Hawktree, Bully Pulpit, Links of ND, Oxbow (I believe there is a $140 deal to play the first 3)
SD - Southern Hills, Hart Ranch, Red Rock, Prairie Green, Willow Run and Spearfish Canyon

Any of these not worth the effort?  Any additions, hidden gems?

I did the three ND courses back in 2006.  I have relatives in Eastern Montana, so I drove back and stopped at Hawktree on the way.  My family lives within 1:30-2:00 drives to both Medora and Williston/Ray, so those were day trips.  

The best scenery, as one would expect, was at Bully Pulpit.  I actually liked a lot of the holes on the front nine.  One of the par fives actually kind of reminded me of 13th hole at Rustic Canyon, with plenty of room off the tee, but dotted with some bunkers in the middle of the fairway.  The holes that play into the badlands on the back nine provide some spectacular views.  If you head to Medora, do yourself a favor and drive the 35 mile scenic road in Teddy Roosevelt National Park.  It takes about an hour and a half, but it's really beautiful, and you may run across a huge herd of buffalo.  

Links of ND was probably my favorite course of the three.  I hadn't played much links style golf the first time I played it (probably in 1996), so it was a lot of fun, and more fun to go back to.  I also really like the fact that there's nothing there except a small clubhouse and the golf course.  Lake Sakakawea was really low the last time I was there, so the scenery wasn't as perfect, but there are still nice views of the lake.  It can get really windy there, but that's part of the fun.  I also liked that it was fairly easy to find balls that went into the prairie grass on a lot of holes (though not everywhere).  

Hawktree had the best reputation from what I'd read prior to playing it, and I thought it was well deserved.  I think the other two courses would rate higher if they were easier to get to, but Hawktree was a lot of fun.  The black sand bunkers are kind of a trip if you've never seen them before.  I've played Old Works in Western Montana, so I had played out of similar traps, but they play pretty well, and are visually striking.  I don't know that any of the holes were particularly memorable except maybe 18, but the course as a whole was very strong.  

If you can hit all three courses, the triple challenge is a great deal.  Probably even if you can only hit two, it's financially a pretty good deal.  Considering I just paid $155 for a round at Cog Hill, $140 for all three of those is great.  I don't know where you're heading there from, but I stopped on the way back to Chicago and played Troy Burne in Hudson, WI on the trip.  It's just over the MN/WI border heading east out of Minneapolis.  Really pretty course with a collection of very good holes.  

« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 02:17:19 PM by Bill Seitz »

Greg Ohlendorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2010, 07:56:15 PM »
The Roughriders hotel in Medora is excellent. They also have a very good restaurant. It is an excellent place to stay as Bully Pulpit is only a couple of miles away. The Links is in the middle of nowhere and I would route the trip so as not to have to stay that far north. Hawktree is very good as well and there are plenty of good places to stay and eat in Bismark. I would, like other have said, try to playSutton Bay. If they do let you on, you will need to stay there.I also like the Prairie Club option if you can make it work. A bit of a drive from Agar, but two pretty good courses. You will need to stay there as well I believe. There is a lot of good golf up there! Enjoy.

Greg

Tony Weiler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2010, 09:58:27 AM »
Sven, sorry I didn't see this earlier.  I'm in Bismarck, and play the first three you mentioned quite often.  If you get up this way, let me know and I'll see if I can make the Hawktree round.  Right now, the courses are just fantastic.  We've had a cool summer, with plenty of rain.  Perhaps the best conditions for this time of year for a long, long, time. 

Hawktree is a great course.  I love this Engh layout.  It has some definite challenges from tee to green on all the par 3 and 4s, and some "easier" par 5s.  The wind can be a huge factor, but worth playing.  A difficult walk, however. 

The Links is another great layout.  It plays like a links when the wind is blowing, but can really play quite easy without wind.  Lake Sakakwea is at it's tipping point right now, so the views will be awesome.   Easily walkable.  These are my favorite two courses in all of ND. 

Bully is also a fine course.  I think the views get it more raves than I'd give it.  I have to say, however, that the more I play it the more it grows on me (I need to mention that in the Anthony Gray thread).  I think it has some "quirks" however, that I don't care for.  But as part of the Triple Package as it’s called, well worth the effort.  Don’t get me wrong, it still makes my top 5 in ND, but I don’t like it nearly as much as the first two.  For $140 or whatever it is, you can’t beat it.  I think Hawktree alone is $90 right now, with cart. 

Not as familiar with SD, but can post on those later.  If you have any other questions, send me a PM.

Tony Weiler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2010, 11:07:41 AM »
Sven, continuing on...

Oxbow is OK, but just that.  I'd play a few others before there.  In fact, if in Bismarck, we have a very nice Muni, Riverwood, that is worth a play.  Maybe $25 to walk.

Now in SD, as others have said, Sutton Bay is a must.  I think Mark Amundson, a member of GCA.com, is the, or was, the GM.  He told me once that it can be played with an overnight stay.  The cabins there are first rate, the course is first rate, and it should not be missed.  I enjoyed Prairie Green and Willow run a lot.  I haven't played Red Rock yet, so can't comment on that.  SD is very green right now as well, as I just returned from a family trip to the Black Hills. 

Anyway, let me know if you decide to make this trip.  I might be able to help with a round at Hawktree.

Tony

Brad Wilbur

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2010, 06:24:55 PM »
Another possibility, depending on your entrance route to South Dakota, is Dakota Dunes in North Sioux City.  I played it for the third time this summer, albeit a rain-shortened 10 holes.  It has suffered a little from home construction, as the first holes that leave the cottonwood trees and go out to the prairie now have houses bordering them.  It had reminded me of Spyglass in that respect.  The Missouri River lines several holes---at one time the 18th green sat on a small island in the river.  After a couple floods it was moved to a safer location. 

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2010, 12:11:48 PM »
Thanks for all of the responses, very helpful and I'm looking forward to seeing the courses.

For those that PMed me or responded with an interest in getting a round in, I'll send you updates for my timing once I get on the road.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Ron Farris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: South Dakota and North Dakota
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2010, 08:12:03 AM »
Sven, I designed the Golf Club at Red Rock. 
If you give me a heads up I can inform the Owners and Pro that you are coming.
That of course doesn't give you any special standing, but I will say that they are lurkers here on this site.
RR is not for walking, unless you are a mountain goat.  We walk the front all the time.  "All the time!"

10 hole-in-ones on this hole the first year of play.  But I have seen an a lot of sixes made here.

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