Why Would I Write About Lyle Lovett Here?

[Tom_Doak]

One of the lesser-known benefits of living in Traverse City is the Interlochen Music Camp, a few miles south of town.  It's one of the best music camps in the country, with many successful grads in the business, and as a result, their summer concert series attracts a great variety of stellar musicians from all genres.

One who comes nearly every year is Lyle Lovett, whom I went to see with my wife for the third year in a row last night.  He brought his 15-piece band with him, as usual, though he didn't have the gospel choir this time, as he did last year.

So why would I mention that?  Because Lyle Lovett puts together his band the way I've always tried to do it, and the way Bill Coore does it.  [We even have a couple of guys in our employ who could get up there on stage and play, though Jeff Bradley would probably fit in with Lyle's band better than Brian Slawnik would.]  He's got a bunch of guys who are great at what they do ... there's someone who can kick ass on banjo, bass, bongos, cello, drums, piano, other vocalists, and of course multiple guitar players ... and who all respect each other's abilities.  They all have to spend a lot of time on the road, and they all clearly love what they do.  And Lyle lets them play, because he knows that's what the audience came to hear.

At the same time, over the course of a concert, there is a tremendous variety of stuff.  If I had to guess, I'd guess they played about 18 songs last night.  They started off slowly with only four pieces [bass, cello, violin, and Lyle on guitar], and then brought in a few more midway through the second or third song.  They went loud and picked up the tempo for a while, including three backup singers from L.A.  Then he sent nearly everyone off, and did a three-part harmony bluegrass section for 3-4 songs, before calling back the full band to close the show.  Along the way, every single one of the band members did a solo or a duet where they were the focus ... the cellist blew everyone away in the encore.

And that's the best analogy I've come across lately for how to put a golf course together.  To get the perfect variety of 18 holes, you need some quieter notes, and there are moments where you ought to let one instrument or one hazard shine; and there are others where you throw the whole band at it.  But there are way too many architects who come out with a big band of guys who play loud and over the top of one another, to where you can't even tell how good each of the players really is.

I am sure that others have tried to make this same point here using jazz or classical music as examples; I'm a bit thick on the subject of music so I probably just didn't understand.  But as long as Lyle Lovett keeps coming back to Interlochen, I'll have at least one reminder a year, and my wife will be a little less bummed the next time I have to go away for a few days.

[Scott Warren]

Great post. It's really interesting to hear how artists draw inspiration or understanding of their own artform from someone in an entirely unrelated area of artistsic endeavour.

[Philip Gawith]

Nice analogy Tom and nice story! and definitely the most arresting topic headline for some while on the discussion group - a welcome antidote to some other stuff! I will make an effort to watch LL next time he comes the way of London.

[Mark Buzminski]

Interesting post, Tom - fascinating insight into the compostion of a design team by comparing it to the "Large Band".   I have much more training as a musician than a golf course architect, so I loved the post and it made a lot of sense!  As for Lyle Lovett, yeah, he's great - I was lucky enough to see the Large Band in Toronto on a Lyle Lovett-John Prine twin bill.  A great summer night, that was.

[PCCraig]

Great analogy Tom. It's neat to think that Lyle Lovett brings his audience through a musical journey much like you and your team build a journey in the form of a golf course.

It is always interesting to watch the same performer or performance more than once, which really few people do as they usually pay for one ticket and say "I've already seen that" the next time the band comes through town. When I worked for The Second City here in Chicago, I must of watched the same mainstage show 10 times, and each time seeing something different that I didn't notice the first time, or enjoying how the actors changed the show through improv or even in slight changes in body language.

I suppose the biggest advantage Lyle has on you and your team in their entertainment of their respective customers is that they are granted the ability to change their product each time they play and don't have to leave any experiements in the ground.

[Tony Weiler]

Nice post Tom, interesting analogy on how you view what you do, and how it comes together.  Thanks. 

[jeffwarne]

One of the lesser-known benefits of living in Traverse City is the Interlochen Music Camp, a few miles south of town.  It's one of the best music camps in the country, with many successful grads in the business, and as a result, their summer concert series attracts a great variety of stellar musicians from all genres.

One who comes nearly every year is Lyle Lovett, whom I went to see with my wife for the third year in a row last night.  He brought his 15-piece band with him, as usual, though he didn't have the gospel choir this time, as he did last year.

So why would I mention that?  Because Lyle Lovett puts together his band the way I've always tried to do it, and the way Bill Coore does it.  [We even have a couple of guys in our employ who could get up there on stage and play, though Jeff Bradley would probably fit in with Lyle's band better than Brian Slawnik would.]  He's got a bunch of guys who are great at what they do ... there's someone who can kick ass on banjo, bass, bongos, cello, drums, piano, other vocalists, and of course multiple guitar players ... and who all respect each other's abilities.  They all have to spend a lot of time on the road, and they all clearly love what they do.  And Lyle lets them play, because he knows that's what the audience came to hear.

At the same time, over the course of a concert, there is a tremendous variety of stuff.  If I had to guess, I'd guess they played about 18 songs last night.  They started off slowly with only four pieces [bass, cello, violin, and Lyle on guitar], and then brought in a few more midway through the second or third song.  They went loud and picked up the tempo for a while, including three backup singers from L.A.  Then he sent nearly everyone off, and did a three-part harmony bluegrass section for 3-4 songs, before calling back the full band to close the show.  Along the way, every single one of the band members did a solo or a duet where they were the focus ... the cellist blew everyone away in the encore.

And that's the best analogy I've come across lately for how to put a golf course together.  To get the perfect variety of 18 holes, you need some quieter notes, and there are moments where you ought to let one instrument or one hazard shine; and there are others where you throw the whole band at it.  But there are way too many architects who come out with a big band of guys who play loud and over the top of one another, to where you can't even tell how good each of the players really is.

I am sure that others have tried to make this same point here using jazz or classical music as examples; I'm a bit thick on the subject of music so I probably just didn't understand.  But as long as Lyle Lovett keeps coming back to Interlochen, I'll have at least one reminder a year, and my wife will be a little less bummed the next time I have to go away for a few days.

Don't you think the concert would've been better if you'd walked up 20 bleachers for each of the 18 songs
 so you'd have a better view of the lake?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Tom,

Another benefit of living where you do is that the annual NHL Prospects Tournament and rookie camp at the Center Ice Arena in Traverse City, Michigan, begins on Sept. 11.

I hope to hear a full report!

[Dan Herrmann]

Tom,
You should drop a line to Lyle.  I think he'd like your story - it's a good one

(I love Lovett's music!)

[Michael Blake]

Sounds like this should be an MBA case-study on Organizational Leadership.

[Chris Buie]

I ran across this quote the other day.  It seems relevant here.

The art community would benefit from exposure to golf architecture simply because the best courses, such as Alister MacKenzie's Cypress Point on the Monterey Peninsula, are things of astonishing beauty, comparable in craftsmanship, complexity, and deceptiveness to the finest efforts of 18th-century English landscape artists.

- Steve Sailer

I would imagine that being an authentic GCA is a combination of several different things.  Artistry being one of them.  Well, some could be considered artists.  Strantz certainly.

[Steve Kline]

Tom interesting thoughts. Don't know if you're a Grateful Dead fan but based on this post I bet you'd be interested in reading about the band and their collaborative style of improvisation/management. One of things that always stood out to me in reading about the band was the comment "It's not about what you play but what you don't play." Also, if you ever get a chance to see Bruce Hornsby (hasn't toured much for a while because his kids are at an age he wants to be home) do it. You will notice something similar to Lyle - lots of variety in styles of music, he directs the band but lets everyone shine. Best of all the audience calls the shots as almost all but the first couple of songs of a concert are audience requests. This particular facet of Hornsby's concert style seems to fit in perfectly with your design at Ballyneal - the golfer (not the architect) chooses the tees and there is plenty of width/strategy for the golfer to improvise and call the shots.

[Terry Lavin]

Lyle Lovett, his Julia Roberts interlude notwithstanding, is one of my favorite artists.  His "Joshua Judges Ruth" album is his best, IMHO.  And my favorite lyric is "She's No Lady", as dark a salute to marriage as ever's been written.  A sample:

The preacher asked her
And she said I do
The preacher asked me
And she said yes he does too
And the preacher said
I pronounce you 99 to life
Son she's no lady she's your wife

[Carl Nichols]

Do golf architects marry above their heads too?

[Jud_T]

Only time I ever got a little excited about Lyle Lovett was when I ran into him and Julia in a bar in NYC, but a nice analogy nevertheless.  I may have to burn an Ipod for Tom for Christmas.....

[BCrosby]

Great stuff Tom. I also think the parallels between golf architecture and music run wide and deep.

Just for starters, both are performance arts that require planning and structure. Both peg off of basic principles that can be executed in countless ways. Both set moods and then change them suddenly to create drama. I could go on. There's a good book to be written about where the two intersect.

Bob  

[Bill Brightly]

 To get the perfect variety of 18 holes, you need some quieter notes, and there are moments where you ought to let one instrument or one hazard shine; and there are others where you throw the whole band at it.  

When I read this I immediately thought of #18 at Pacific Dunes and said: this is one where Doak threw the whole band at it! Do you agree, Tom?

[Peter Pallotta]

Another interesting aspect, Tom, is that reading about the analogy left you cold, until you experienced the analogy at the Lovett show.  Which is to say (amongst other things), that even the best model/rule - for how to build a design team, for how to design a golf course -- is only a preliminary step; the proof is in only the pudding, the talent and experience are made manifest only in the playing/doing, when the art and craft is communicated to others.  Also interesting is that, in this case, you were the other, the audience, experiencing the journey instead of creating it -- and it's not surprising that you went back for the 3rd time to experience the kind of journey that you most enjoy, or that this musical journey satisfies the same personal taste that your design work does.  I've often wanted to ask musicians, writers, and painters whether or not they actually like their own work, as an audience. Yes, I know they probably enjoy the doing of it, and the self-expression, but after all is said and done, do they really enjoy listening to their own music or reading their own books or viewing their own paintings. That , I think, would be a genuine test of the quality of the work and of the quality of the artist.  But I've never had the nerve to ask - it's a vaguely insulting question...and I'm not sure I really want to know the answer.

Peter

[Tim Taylor]

Neat post. A great concert is full of tension and release, just like a great golf course should be.

I don't have a bunch of Lyle in my collection, but what I have (Joshua Judges Ruth, Live in Texas) I like a lot. Lyle is one of those artists that is impossible to categorize other than to say "songwriter".

Tim

[SL_Solow]

After that post, I am beginning to feel better about my recurring discussions with peter Pallotta in which references to jazz musicians and their shared characteristics with golf course architects are a running theme met with indifference or puzzlement by the majority of our compatriots on this board.

[Adam Clayman]

Bill, I too was most impressed with the closer at Pac Dunes. I felt it was the most like any hole at my home course. Full of strategy with quarter note penalties (Blindness) for being in the wrong position.

I've made the same comment about the whole kitchen sink about Ken Dye's original closer at Pinon Hills. Justifying why the 3/4 cross hazard on the original 16th needs to be restored. Of course if they never reverse the config back, it won't really matter.

Tom, That was a thoughtful piece of writing.

How does a concert come off when there's a ton of tension between the performing artists?

[Tom_Doak]

How does a concert come off when there's a ton of tension between the performing artists?

It comes off like Sebonack.  Severe.

[Tom_Doak]

I've often wanted to ask musicians, writers, and painters whether or not they actually like their own work, as an audience. Yes, I know they probably enjoy the doing of it, and the self-expression, but after all is said and done, do they really enjoy listening to their own music or reading their own books or viewing their own paintings. That , I think, would be a genuine test of the quality of the work and of the quality of the artist.  But I've never had the nerve to ask - it's a vaguely insulting question...and I'm not sure I really want to know the answer.

Peter

Peter:

I'm not sure if that is really the genuine test of the quality of the work, but I can tell you that I really enjoy playing my own golf courses ... even the smaller ones ... as long as I'm not having to respond to problems or to criticisms of it from outsiders while I'm there.

I think the same is true for musicians.  I've heard several of them talk about their work, and they often say that the hit songs are not necessarily the ones they most enjoyed writing.  And I can vouch now that while Lyle Lovett always includes 2-3 hits that the audience wants to hear, the rest of his concerts vary considerably from one year to the next.  He mixes things up and plays songs from other writers a lot.  In fact, before three or four songs last night he spoke warmly about the older generation of guys who wrote those songs and who helped him out when he was getting started, letting him sit in with them for a song or two as a way of introducing him to the club owners and other musicians.

In general I have little use for music writing and critics, but I was looking at the program this morning for the names of his various band members, and whoever wrote the program for Interlochen wrote that

     "Lyle Lovett does a lot of things very well, but one of his most important talents is his ability to make us aware of how much the past lives in us and how what we do today shapes how we will consider our lives later."

I think there's room for a lot of that in the best golf course design, too.

[Dan Herrmann]

Amen, Thomas, Amen!

[Tim Pitner]

Great stuff Tom. I also think the parallels between golf architecture and music run wide and deep.

Just for starters, both are performance arts that require planning and structure. Both peg off of basic principles that can be executed in countless ways. Both set moods and then change them suddenly to create drama. I could go on. There's a good book to be written about where the two intersect.

The analogy between the collection of songs on a CD/album (or during a concert) and the collection of holes on a course always strikes me.  In both cases, I think it's better to have some ebb and flow and changes of pace.  You don't want to go for just a string of hits, which is why good albums are always better than greatest hits collections.  I thought about this recently when comparing a Wilco concert (more variety) to The Hold Steady (just about all hard-charging rockers).  The latter, although good, wears you out after awhile. 

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