[Patrick_Mucci]

So many times when I play a course I notice abandoned features, footprints or footpads if you will of a vestigial feature.

My first thought is: What was this and why was it abandoned ?

Invariably, my curiosity fuels the notion that someone changed the course, was it the original architect, the membership, a superintendant or another architect.

Unfortunately, unlike old bridges where the date of inception is recorded, no markings accompany the abandoned feature/s.

A visit to historicaerials.com sometimes provides the dating information, but, never the "why" information.

Recently, I came across what I perceived was an abandoned bunker.

When I went to historicaerials.com I was able to confirm the prior existance of the bunker and date the disappearance to a time frame of approximately 7 years, approximately 8 to 15 years ago.

I then went back to the staff and long time members at the club and inquired about the removal of the bunker.
Not one recalled its existance.
That made it impossible for me to determine "why".

So, my quest on this particular feature continues.
I will contact the consulting architect with the before and after photos and inquire as to why the feature was removed.

How many of you notice the remnants of old features and pursue the origination and/or removal of that feature ?

What are some of the more interesting features that NLE that you found ?

[Mike Cirba]

Patrick,

Yes....I call it golf course archeology, and a bunch of us nuts have done a bunch of it over the past few years, going so far as to play from abandoned tees in the winter, along abandoned fairways.

One day I recall fondly was at Essex CC in NU, at a previous GCA outing when me, Rick Wolffe, Mark Chalfant, and another person went looking for remnants of the old Tillinghast course in the woods to the right off today's 10th green.   Sure enough, we found a greensite and the next tee pad, which had served a short par three.

These days, I love this stuff more than playing, strangely.   

[mike_beene]

I have the same reaction to routing oddities. some have obvious answers like a road expansion. some will tell you the financial history of a club selling land to survive.Others,such as the split nines of Winged Foot West remain a mystery to me at least.

[Matthew Rose]

I'm always fascinated by abandoned tees and greens, particularly ones which are pretty obvious - left intact but with grass or growth allowed to overtake it.

The public course and the country club in the town I grew up in both had good examples. The public course was a 9-holer that expanded to 18 with many greens relocated. The country club had remnants of a second green on a par-3 which was benched into the side of a very steep hill and was clearly evident.

They used to allow for a lot of imagination.

[Jeffrey Stein]

Patrick,

Its always a nice surprise to come across some oddity of golf architecture.  While playing Royal Melbourne West this summer my host Warwick (GCA'er) pointed out some cross mounding from an old routing of the golf course.  I believe it was between the 14th and 15th holes.  If anyone can comment on this I would much appreciate a clarification, Warwick??

Another interesting architectual feature I was surprised by appeared on a walking tour of Brookline CC.  I was very surprised to see chocholate drops / grassy mounds around some of the greens.  I'm sure a downhill lie in thick rough on one of these mounds would be pretty difficult, I definately got a kick out of this homage and preservation of some penal design features.  It seemed fitting at a course of such histrorical significance.

[Anthony Gray]

 No body goes to those abandoned places anymore they are too crouded.

  Anthony

[Gary Slatter]

I'm always amazed by the small path back to the tips and wonder how long ago it was when I used to go there.

[Anthony Gray]

I'm always amazed by the small path back to the tips and wonder how long ago it was when I used to go there.

  I only go back there to pee.

  Anthony

[Jeff_Brauer]

Patrick,

Yeah I am fascinated, too.  I am also fascinated when on a new site about old roads, Indian paths, structures I find, etc.  I just stand and wonder how it was in the day. Also, how much things change over time when we tend to think of them as permanent.

[Kevin Lynch]

Up North, I often see abandoned bunkers on the inside corners of doglegs, which are now protected by mature Maple Trees or Pines.  I can envision the course when it opened, with little staked saplings around the former bunker.

There is one hole on my home course that is a 90 degree dogleg left with a  stand of trees on the corner (and an abandoned bunker).  For decades, I have taken my line directly over the trees to cut off 60 or 70 yards.  Unfortunately, those trees are getting taller, I'm getting older and there is going to come a painful day when I'm going to have to "aim for gaps" or learn how to draw the ball consistently.  I suppose at that point, the "back tees" may be an abandoned feature for me. 

[BCrosby]

I too am fascinated by abandoned features. But I am also fascinated by existing features.

Both, in esence, raise the same question. Why are the features there (or not)?

Bob

[Mike Cirba]

Lots of interesting original bunker work (now largely overgrown) to the left of the 12th at Pine Valley, extending out almost all the way to the ridge.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Lots of interesting original bunker work (now largely overgrown) to the left of the 12th at Pine Valley, extending out almost all the way to the ridge.

Mike,

You may recall that someone started a thread on # 12, perhaps it was me or perhaps it was in response to my contention that benign neglect had allowed invasive trees and undergrowth to alter the playing corridors and features of a number of holes at PV.

Jamie Slonis introduced us to historicaerials.com which clearly showed the progression of the invasive growth and the shrinkage of the playing areas.

Over the last decade PV has recaptured some of those lost features, but, many still remain.

If Crump and his successors introduced those features I see no reason why they shouldn't be recaptured, vis a vis tree removal.

Why wouldn't you want to restore and retain those features ?

If for no other reason than to preserve Crump's original masterpiece.

[John Moore II]

I notice this especially on bunkers. Where it is apparent that a bunker existed somewhere and was covered up for whatever reason. Sometimes these bunkers are even still noted on the course map/yardage book. Often times I have felt the ones which were covered up are the best ones at a facility. I noticed this on Friday during my round with Tim Gavrich.

I also notice lost tees, but that it more rare.

How about obvious cases where the green surface is smaller than originally designed? Where the surface might be 10-15 yards back from a bunker or depression that were obviously supposed to abut the green, or at least fringe, surface.

Yes, I am fascinated by these lost features. Some would not seem to be hard to maintain features. I wonder why they were lost to start with.

[Jed Peters]

These days, I love this stuff more than playing, strangely.   

Wow.

That's like the ultimate Beard Puller's comment.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Yes, I am fascinated by these lost features. Some would not seem to be hard to maintain features. I wonder why they were lost to start with.

That's what mostly peaks my interest.

Why were they abandoned ?

And why aren't they restored ?

[Dan Herrmann]

I remember a long-abandoned tee at Eastmoreland (Portland, OR - Egan) that was used for the 1990 USGA Publinx.  If I remember correctly (it's been 20 years!), it was the  6th hole.  I think this abandoned tee was up on a hill and made the hole play quite a bit longer than it does today.

Maybe Peter P can provide more info...

-------------------
Want a related hobby?  Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandoned_Pennsylvania_Turnpike

[John Moore II]

Yes, I am fascinated by these lost features. Some would not seem to be hard to maintain features. I wonder why they were lost to start with.

That's what mostly peaks my interest.

Why were they abandoned ?

And why aren't they restored ?

Well, I can generally understand why they are not restored. It would cost a fair amount of money to do that, and many courses, especially the ones I am talking about, don't have the resources to do that. However, it would have cost less than that to keep them and maintain them.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dan,

I wonder how many on this site who have visited Sand Hills have made the climb back behind the current 17th tee to see the old abandoned 17th tee.

It's a great sight.

The green looks smaller and the surrounding area even more intimidating.

And, there's far more wind up on that hill.

I'd love to see that tee restored for special occassions and on days where there's no wind

[John Moore II]

Dan,

I wonder how many on this site who have visited Sand Hills have made the climb back behind the current 17th tee to see the old abandoned 17th tee.

It's a great sight.

The green looks smaller and the surrounding area even more intimidating.

And, there's far more wind up on that hill.

I'd love to see that tee restored for special occassions and on days where there's no wind

That reminds me of the two lost tees on #14 at Tobacco Road. There are two tees up the hill behind the current tees that allow the hole to play up to 195 yards. Given where they are located, they must have been beasts to maintain, but for the brave, they can still be played. When Ed Getka, Brett (or Brent) Waters and myself played TR back in January of '09 we all went back and played from the back tee. Its a heck of a hole from back there.

[Dan Herrmann]

What's cool is that we have a few "secret" tees at my course that was only built in 2003.  Every once in a while, you'll see one in play.  They're all whimsical and bring a smile to your face.

[RSLivingston_III]

You can add me to this club.

I am amazed how often trees were planted in filled fairway bunkers on classic era courses. I did end up purchasing a 3' soil probe for checking out suspected bunkers.

[Dan Herrmann]

Ding, Ding, Ding.  Ralph - you've just won the GCA geek of the week award.  I'm proud of you! 

[Chris Buie]

Patrick, I do find them fascinating as well.  I always wonder what went through the mind of the guy that decided to abandon something that a classic architect put in.  I can't imagine making such a decision myself.  But, obviously there were a lot of people that blithely painted right over some of the master's canvases.  Amazing.
Anyway, Pinehurst is (literally) filled with such.  Here is an example from #1 Course.  What you see in the big photo was the big fairway bunker that is on the graphic representation.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chris,

That's pretty neat.

But, at least you solved part of the mystery in that you have confirming evidence in the way of the schematic.

The next phase would be to discover WHEN the feature was removed.
Historicaerials.com might pin point the date

Often the Depression or WWII influenced the abandonment.

If not those two culprits, the mystery remains

Good luck.

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