[Mike Demetriou]

Jim, I agree with you. The changes Rees implemented added teeth and some interesting bunkers, but were powerless to remedy the nature of the significant problems that exist at a design level. The par threes remain homogeneous, and the par fours remain relatively homogeneous as well. Short of designing new holes, that's a really large move.

[PThomas]

I'm amazed that Cog Hill could jump from completely out of the rankings to 16th overall. Although I agree it should definitely be in the top 100, I didn't think the changes that Rees made were a big enough improvement (or really any improvement) to warrant such a move.

I agree Jim

[Ron Csigo]

Mauna Kea is another one that makes a huge jump from being nowhere on the list in 2008 to be #19 on the 2010 list.

Can someone please provide some insight on that course?

[Carl Nichols]

I didn't realize the top rate at Bandon is now $275 -- when I was there a couple of years ago it was $200, and when you factored in the $100 replay, it was basically $150/round, and thus didn't feel that expensive. $275 is a fairly big number, but doesn't seem to get that much attention around these parts....

[Richard Choi]

Mauna Kea is another one that makes a huge jump from being nowhere on the list in 2008 to be #19 on the 2010 list.

Can someone please provide some insight on that course?

Now I wish I played the course last week when I was there.

However, the landscape (wild, outside the resort) around that course is just OUTSTANDING. A ton of choppy dunes (of volcanic rocks) that reminded me of topography around Ballyneal. Too bad Mauna Kea does not feature much of that natural landscape.

[John Moore II]

P!$$ on Golf Magazine, no way Finley and Duke are better than NCSU. Bunch of idiots. I'll take the State course over Tobacco Road, Tot Hill Farm or any of those 4 Myrtle Beach area dumps any day. Tobacco Road at 97, what a joke. Idiots at Golf Magazine must pay attention to all the marketing dollars that get spent on Tobacco Road. Its not Top 100, not by a long shot. And if it is, NC State is Top 50. At least the clowns ranked Golden Horseshoe and The Old White. And who edits the website? Grand National is literally not in Alaska. Bunch of clowns. I put no stock in this list, I'd just as soon print it off for use in the head on my ship.

[Mac Plumart]

John...that is FUNNY!!!!  Especially given who some of the raters are for Golf Mag!

Great stuff!!

[Kevin Pallier]

Not that it isn't worthy because I'm sure that it is, but how can it hit the rankings so quickly?

Because it's that good 

I'm surprised it didn't debut in the Top5....

[JC Jones]

Kevin,

I have no doubt it is that good.  I've heard from several people, whom I respect, that the course is the real deal.  My point was more towards having enough raters out there in time to rate the course before their deadline (likely before June 1).

[Tim Bert]

Does anyone know if Golf Mag would have accepted ratings from panelists that might have seen the entire 18 but only played the 10 hole preview?

[Jerry Kluger]

Does it really matter what order they are in - aren't they all top 10 courses which is some very special company.  I really think that Bandon Dunes gets overlooked too often and if it hadn't been so good the rest of the courses might never had been built. Pac Dunes has great strategy and great scenery which makes it nearly impossible to surpass while Old Mac is probably the most fun of any course you can play. 

I would like to note that a neighbor of mine who is an 18 handicap just came back from Bandon and he played all 4 courses with his wife.  He had played BD and PD before and did not plan on playing Bandon Trails.  He really like Old Mac but his caddie suggested that he play Bandon Trails as many of the caddies think it is the best course on the property so he did; he and his wife absolutely loved it.  My point is that there are 4 great courses and while some "purists" snub BT, it is by no means viewed as a lesser course by what I believe is the typical golfer.

[Richard Choi]

I don't think "purists" are the ones snubbing BT as one of the common reasons for the snub is the lack of ocean views.

[Tim Pitner]

I didn't realize the top rate at Bandon is now $275 -- when I was there a couple of years ago it was $200, and when you factored in the $100 replay, it was basically $150/round, and thus didn't feel that expensive. $275 is a fairly big number, but doesn't seem to get that much attention around these parts....

I was surprised too by the $275 number so l looked it up--that's the peak rate for someone not staying at the resort.  The high season rate for a resort guest is $220 with a $110 replay rate so it's still in the $150 range ($165).  Compared to Pebble, Pinehurst and Whistling Straits, it's still quite a bargain.  Considering what $150 buys you at peak season in Florida, for example, it's an absolute steal. 

[Ryan Farrow]

I don't think "purists" are the ones snubbing BT as one of the common reasons for the snub is the lack of ocean views.

Although Trails is not the weakest link at the complex in term of architecture I would still rather Play Bandon Dunes over Trails any day, its just more fun.... IMO.  Trails will beat you up, perhaps that's why it gets snubbed. Or it could be the lack of ocean.


And Tim,  an absolute steal?

 Lets say for instance, you live on the east coast, your running at least $ 600 to get there and back.
Your staying at the resort, thats 300 a night, (split, because nobody goes to Bandon alone)... $150X2 $300
Your Gonna Play 36 a day..... that's $330 for golf. what else is there to do? $330 X 2 $660 For Golf
If your playing 36, your going to take a caddy. thats $200 A day X 2 $400.


Say you stay for 2 days. 4 rounds? that's running you just short of $1,000 / Day..... hardly a steal.




Throw in a Puffin Penguin Head cover and a Polo and your over a grand a day.

[Rob Rigg]

I agree with Ryan - Trails gets snubbed because it can kick your butt if you are not controlling the ball and there is no "ocean" to stare at to make things better. Slogging up 16, getting beaten down on 17 and the slogging up 18 - all while battling a 30 mph summer wind - does not always provide warm fuzzy memories. I do LOVE that course though - the green complexes are all world.

If you are at Bandon then you'll play 36 a day which washes out at $165 per round which is not bad - during the summer you can play another 9 fairly easily if not 18 (depending on length of stay and energy level of course). I think that is pretty fair given the fact that you are playing four of the Top 10 Public Courses in the country (and are teeing it at the best golf resort in the world). I don't think you need a caddie to play 36 if you are in decent shape - wonder what the percentage is there.

10th for Old Mac - hmm - should certainly be higher, even if it is just pushing BD down a slot.

Totally don't understand the love for WS from these magazines based on photos, reviews, etc. Will never get there either because I'd rather just head to BDGR.

[Anthony Gray]

The other three may have the ocean but in reality Trails may be the most scenic.

  Anthony

[Tim Pitner]

Ryan,

Note that I said it was a steal compared to some other offers.  For example, I've paid around $150 to play some very average courses around Naples, FL in March.  Compared to that experience, $165 for a round at any of the Bandon courses is a bargain.  If you don't take a caddie, you're talking $330 for a 36-hole day plus lodging, food and drink--it's far less than $1000/day. 

I agree that, from what I've seen (and I haven't played it), Whistling Straits does very little for me.  I'd rather go to Bandon for less money and, if I wanted to play a Dye and spend a lot of money, I'd rather go to Kiawah (which I have played and enjoyed, although less than Bandon). 

[Bart Bradley]

Mauna Kea is another one that makes a huge jump from being nowhere on the list in 2008 to be #19 on the 2010 list.

Can someone please provide some insight on that course?

Ron:

Here is a thread I posted with photos of the renovated Mauna Kea course:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39493.0/

Enjoy.

Bart

[Tim Leahy]

That is actually a bit lower than where I thought it would debut...

How come the savior at QB isn't even going to start this year?

He is, Brady Quinn!

[Terry Lavin]

Does it really matter what order they are in - aren't they all top 10 courses which is some very special company.  I really think that Bandon Dunes gets overlooked too often and if it hadn't been so good the rest of the courses might never had been built. Pac Dunes has great strategy and great scenery which makes it nearly impossible to surpass while Old Mac is probably the most fun of any course you can play. 

I would like to note that a neighbor of mine who is an 18 handicap just came back from Bandon and he played all 4 courses with his wife.  He had played BD and PD before and did not plan on playing Bandon Trails.  He really like Old Mac but his caddie suggested that he play Bandon Trails as many of the caddies think it is the best course on the property so he did; he and his wife absolutely loved it.  My point is that there are 4 great courses and while some "purists" snub BT, it is by no means viewed as a lesser course by what I believe is the typical golfer.

I think you're right on all counts.  BT suffers because of the magnificence of the eye candy on the other courses.  Some people pan it because of a couple questionable holes (14, 16 and 18 get a fair amount of criticism), but I think that people are overly seduced by the many magnificent ocean views on the first two courses.  That being said, there's no doubt that BT is a terrific golf course and it is clearly the most difficult of the four golf courses.

[Jud_T]

I agree that BT doesn't get enough love because of the lack of water vistas.  I don't agree that the course beats you up, at least until 14 green...

[Ted Cahill]

I agree with Anthony- Bandon Trails is the most scenic course at the resort.  The ocean views are very nice, but I am more wowed by the 11, 12, 13 stretch at BT.  My biggest "complaint" about BT is 16.  That hole is nothing but a chore- and after I stagger off of it, I ususally play 17 and 18 more exhausted and less well and dont enjoy them as much.  That is the land CC was given to work with, I don't fault them.  I wonder if the course could be re-routed so 16 came earlier in the round?  It would be an interesting question....

[Dan_Callahan]

The fact that Sunday River is ranked as the 85th best public-access course in America is an absolute joke. I have played there once. I turned down a free round a month later. And I am a golf slut who would rather stick a hot poker in my eye than turn down free golf.

It's one thing to debate whether Pinehurst is better than Pacific is better than Pebble ... etc. But to have a course ranked in the top 100 that I would prefer NOT TO PLAY AT ALL is astounding. Who came up with that list? Even if my feelings about Sunday River are extreme, I have a hard time believing anyone would choose it over Newport National, Red Tail, the Ranch, Butter Brook, Oxford Greens, Wintonbury, Old Marsh, Crumpin Fox, Waverly Oaks, Blackstone, Okemo, Green Mountain National ... and on and on. And that's just in New England!

[John Moore II]

The fact that Sunday River is ranked as the 85th best public-access course in America is an absolute joke. I have played there once. I turned down a free round a month later. And I am a golf slut who would rather stick a hot poker in my eye than turn down free golf.

It's one thing to debate whether Pinehurst is better than Pacific is better than Pebble ... etc. But to have a course ranked in the top 100 that I would prefer NOT TO PLAY AT ALL is astounding. Who came up with that list? Even if my feelings about Sunday River are extreme, I have a hard time believing anyone would choose it over Newport National, Red Tail, the Ranch, Butter Brook, Oxford Greens, Wintonbury, Old Marsh, Crumpin Fox, Waverly Oaks, Blackstone, Okemo, Green Mountain National ... and on and on. And that's just in New England!

Dan-View my reply #30 for my feelings about this list. I can echo your comments about Sunday River for Tobacco Road. I wouldn't turn down a free round there, but I do not think it is top 100. Looking at my personal little top 25 list, I have 15 courses ahead of Tobacco Road, 10 of those are public. Only two of those made this top 100, so that tells you what I thought of it.

[Jay Cox]

Both Mauna Kea and Cog Hill No. 4 are only "new" to the list because they were booted off in 2008 because they were closed for renovations.  They were regulars on the GM lists before then -- though if I recall correctly not ranked quite as highly as they are now.

I may be beating a dead horse, but the most astonishing thing to me about the list is the omission of the Ross course at French Lick.  I think it belongs in the top 10.  Does anyone who has played it agree that it does not belong in the Top 100 at all?

More generally, other than a few famous names, there are hardly any classic courses on the list at all.  There are four courses from before 1950 in the top 15 (Pebble Beach, Bethpage, Pinehurst No. 2, and Pasa) and another two from before 1980 (Spyglass and Harbour Town).  After that, there are a total of eight more pre-1950 courses in the next 85 (Cascades, Sea Island, Taconic, Dunes, Pine Needles, Greenbrier, Linville, and Broadmoor) and a total of seven more pre-1980 (Golden Horseshoe, Innisbrook, and Doral, plus four that have been substantially renovated in the past two years, Cog Hill, Mauna Kea, Torrey Pines, and Bay Hill).  Over 80% of the courses ranked from 16 through 100 were built in the last 30 years.

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