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Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Feedback or critique please...
« on: August 12, 2010, 09:29:50 AM »
on this last thread of mine... http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45465.0/

I thought I was posting a list and some thoughts on my recent trip and was hoping for some opinions and some discussion, but zero.

Please tell me what is wrong with it - it must be "too" something. or just crap and BS? are lists just BS? Needs pics as well I suppose...

Feedback appreciated - no matter how harsh - I am here to learn.


Cheers
Brett
@theflatsticker

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feedback or critique please...
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2010, 10:05:07 AM »
Brett, I only perused it, but, since you asked. It is a bit complicated (due to the exception of CPC) and would require quite a bit of time and thought to analyze to the point that someone would disagree. Assuming of course, that only disagreements illicit a response. That being said, they are yours and only yours. You posted them and maybe after time some with have taken the time to disagree or discuss it with you. Hope it helps. As a rule just because no one responds does not mean there's not merit. It just takes time sometimes.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feedback or critique please...
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2010, 10:16:46 AM »
The lists are much too difficult to comprehend. Here are some samples from each list.

12.   18 – Old Mac – Punchbowl P4

16.   Pasatiempo P4/Cypress Point P3/Bandon Dunes P4  – Spyglass P4

6.   3* Old Macdonald #18 Punchbowl

17.   ***  3^^^


These lists are attempting to convey the following information - rank, course name, hole name, par, tee location, ties, second place, third place, Michelin rating, and difficulty rating. This is fine, but it presents an information design problem that probably cannot be solved with typed black and white lists. As Edward Tufte famously noted "Confusion and clutter are failures of design, not attributes of information."

The core problem is the discrepancies between the legend and the lists. You say that you are awarding stars, but is "***" the same as  "3*"? You also don't explain how stars are earned, as you do for tics and hearts, which is unfortunate because stars are the most prominent feature of the lists.

You say that you are awarding tics, but I can't see any. The first list is in no particular order but is numbered from 1 to 18. Also, the criteria for the Cypress Point list is unclear. You say that you are replacing all the "one heart" holes from Cypress. Does this mean that the holes that you are substituting were better than the holes at Cypress?

Labeling discrepancies make it difficult to make comparisons. "Old Mac" and "Old Macdonald", "CPC" and "Cypress Point", when seen at glance, appear to be referring to different entities.

« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 10:26:33 AM by Michael Moore »
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feedback or critique please...
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2010, 10:18:03 AM »
I did not see your original thread. There have been threads like this in the past and I actually like them. I just got back from Bandon as well and have a hard time believing Bandon Dunes #5 was not on your list.
Mr Hurricane

Chris Shaida

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feedback or critique please...
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2010, 10:19:39 AM »
Brett, I read this as well and really enjoyed it (so it was NOT 'crap' or 'BS').  As regards the relative lack of responses, my guess is (to echo Adam) what it was was 'too long'.  NOT too long as a piece of coherent writing, just too long as a post designed to elicit a bunch of discussion board responses.  You might try taking just one thing and putting it out there (maybe with reference to your original thread as 'background')?  But if it helps, I was glad you wrote what you wrote and posted it.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Feedback or critique please...
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2010, 10:26:20 AM »
Brett,

Forget the lsits... write to us of what your heart saw. How these courses impressed and inspired you and how this trip has changed you as a golfer, a course architecture lover and a person. Do it slowly. A few paragraphs simply cannot do what you experienced justice. take a course a day and write of what you found and were stunned by. Be specific but also give the poet that has found its voice in the beauty that you were fortunate to have been a part of its voice in what you write...

I guarantee you will hold all of us in expectation of what will come next as we take your adventure alongside you this time...

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feedback or critique please...
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2010, 10:53:24 AM »
thanks guys,

all great responses and your feedback is much appreciated.
i will work on just incorporating my 'rankings' into the individual course pic and description tours.

Thanks MM - not much of an editor I am afraid - will work on the decluttering and confusion, I noted it as I was putting together but was helpless to do anything about it!

And Philip, thanks also for the encouragement, and I will certainly give more thought to your suggestions - cheers  :)
- the changes are immediately apparent in some new goals.
@theflatsticker

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Feedback or critique please...
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2010, 11:00:40 AM »
Brett:

There were not too many surprises, really that was the main thing.  You'll get some people to agree with you if you write an essay about what you like, but if you just write a list they mostly agree with, there's nothing to say.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feedback or critique please...
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2010, 11:33:02 AM »
Brett:

Yours is a unique problem in that very few on this site have played the litany of courses noted in your post and therefore can only speak to portions of the post but not the entirety.  Consider yourself very lucky to have played all of these courses, I for one am extremely jealous.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Feedback or critique please...
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2010, 11:35:25 AM »
Brett, I enjoyed my first read of your posts and was waiting for a good time to try to figure out the ratings.  

I don't know you well enough, nor do I know the Bandon courses well enough,  to know if your opinion is similar to mine, although I also usually feel CP is my favourite (US) golf course.

Congrats on your effort, most of the site are glued to the fog at Whistling Straits.  That's the most/only authentic touch Kohler could ask for. :)
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com