Royal Birkdale -

[Sean_A]

I essentially don't see an issue with the routing. The course moves in all directions and follows a path of least resistance....its a very logical solution.  Its a tough driving course due to many cross-wind holes.  I don't even have much problem with the flattish fairways...this is often the case with holes between dunes.  The man-made elements aren't brilliant however....I am left with an overly sterile feeling...much like Vienna!  There is no quirk...and given the site, it seems like there should be some.  Its all too man-made for such a wild and wooly site. Birkdale is the sort of course which is really too vanilla for criticism to really stick.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,


I am not sure what manmade features you are referring to. Could you give an example?


Adam,


I was saddened by the removal of the hump at the turn of the sixth but apart from that I am not sure where they have done such else where. Do you have any photos of them using a bulldozer on the construction as you claim? Based on what is found in the untouched dunes adjacent to the course I believe the flatness of the fairways is more due to the natural tendency of the land than man.


Jon

[Sean_A]

Sean,

I am not sure what manmade features you are referring to. Could you give an example?

Jon


Bunkers and greens..not much imagination involved.  Very little if any use of broken ground...its pretty much a delineated fairways/greens/rough/bunkers course.  As I say, its all rather sterile and too vanilla for my tastes.


Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

Jon -- I don't mean recently, I mean back during the construction of the present course by Fred Hawtree in the 60s. You may be right about the land being naturally like that, but I don't think so. It looks man made to me.

[MJohnson]

I have not played Birkdale in the summer but in some very strong winds, rain and hail of November.


I prefer Formby and Hillside to Birkdale but that does not mean I would not jump at the chance of another round there. Maybe on three consecutive days would give me a better comparison.

[Jon Wiggett]

Jon -- I don't mean recently, I mean back during the construction of the present course by Fred Hawtree in the 60s. You may be right about the land being naturally like that, but I don't think so. It looks man made to me.

Adam,


as far as I am aware the Hawtree work back in the 60's was not a wholesale rebuild but rather a couple of holes were removed including the old par three between what is now 15 and 17/18 and the introduction of the present par 3 12th. Some holes were holes were tweaked and others left as is. I believe that whilst work was done on bunkers, tees and greens very little work was done on the fairways. Certainly the wholesale bulldozing of features as you seem to envisage I do not believe to have taken place. I asked if you had any photos of such because with it having taken place in the early 60's there should be plenty of documentary photos were such large works undertaken but I have never seen any.


Having spent fair bit of time at the club talking to long standing members and the greenstaff about the clubs history I may have only a slight grasp of the clubs history and so my interest is peaked when people start suggesting something I have been ignorant about. I have based my opinions on talking to people who were about during the work coupled with looking at what is actually on the ground. I am not saying that I am 100% correct but when it is proposed that a club as gone through wholesale destruction of the fairway contours contrary to what I believe to be the case then I am naturally intrigued but would naturally like some sort of evidence to back up such statements. I would be VERY surprised if Fred Hawtree would partake in such a flattening out of natural links contouring


As a side note and to be clear. I am not saying I am correct nor that you are wrong but just that it would be nice to see something that might collaborate your feelings.


Jon

[Rich Goodale]

I first did the Scottish rota in 1978 and then did the English rota in 1981.  At the time I thought that Birkdale was the best of the Full English and Carnoustie the best of the Full Scottish.  Since further play I've moved Birkdale below Sandwich, but still better than the other English venues.  I still think that Carnoustie is the best of the Full Scottish.  Except, of course, Dornoch, which is too good to host an Open.

[David_Tepper]

Palmer wins the 1961 Open at Birkdale:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG4ga4MWZgo

[Rich Goodale]

Have you got the video of Arnie losing the Open at St. Andrews in 1960, Dave?  It could give us a pair of good bookends, if you do.


Slainte Mhor


R

[David_Tepper]

Rich -

Hope this will do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hxG_MxwtV8

DT

[Rich Goodale]

Thanks!


Short but interesting.


R

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Here's an incomplete photo (only the 1st nine) tour I did a few years ago:


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,53514.0.html


Time to dig out the photos for the 2nd nine and continue the tour.

[David_Tepper]

Brief video preview for this year's Open:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8V4_f3QVn0