[Peter Galea]

I thought all us GCA'ers were beyond the "card and pencil" mentality.

[John_Conley]

I wasn't alive in the Fifties.

[Matthew Rose]

So the question is this - now that there have been two in a little less than a month, does it mean as much?

I'd hate to see 59 turn into 62 (as in 62 home runs) and lose the rarity it has.

[Adam Clayman]

Pete, Tourney golf is the game. We gca'ers should be more interested in the sport. Sadly, these recent occurrences of low low scores is the symptom of a prognosis made a long time ago. Ignoring the warnings of CBM, Dr. Mac and Max Behr has turned our sport into, not only a game, but a game whose only real concern is something as base as profit. Not very balanced is it?

Ten years ago when the really smart people, started rallying for a rollback, I was doubtful it would ever happen. I wasn't against it, I just realized what a tremendous hurdle it would be to convince people to stop vying for that age old search of added length off their drives. Being open minded, I felt at that time that until course records started falling, the argument for a roll back would be ignored.

Well, now it is happening with too much regularity . And not only from the best players in the world, but from Juniors. Should the USGA and R&A continue to ignore the fact that their inaction has allowed a situation that threatens the long term health of the sport they are tasked with protecting?

I don't expect the archies in the crowd will rally too hard for a rollback, because they do have to eat, too.
 

   

[Tim Bert]

Adam - do you advocate the rollback for the entire game or just the professional game?  Here in crappy amateur land, where 90% of us golfers reside, I am happy to report that the game is just as hard as it has ever been.  I can see the argument for reigning in the pros just because we are running out of distance on our championship tracks and they are only a very small part of the game anyway, but chalk me up as one that will still be using my 460cc driver and still hitting it only 240 yards when the technology deputees come calling.

This topic always tears me up because I do think that the pro game is out of control but I also think making the game harder when it is already too hard for most tha play it isn't the answer. This leaves me in a position to advocate the movement to bifurcate.

[Brent Hutto]

Pete, Tourney golf is the game.

Big-time professional golf is entertainment. It has no effect on the game I know and love. If every tournament from my club championship right on up to the Opens were abolished tomorrow I would experience the game exactly as I do now. Don't grant that tail the power to wag the dog, it's just a sideshow.

[Tim_Cronin]

To paraphrase Bobby Jones, there's golf and there's tournament golf. There should be two sets of equipment rules. Jeff Gordon can't drive his Sprint Cup car on the street and I can't take my Hyundai on the race track. Golf has to get with it.

[RJ_Daley]

I'm also in that camp of bifurcating the equipment rules.  In terms of hurting the sales of equipment, I don't think that having a tournament ball, and certain club specifications that tone down the distance and control abilities of the pros, will effect the never ending pursuit by the other 99% of golfers who are not professionals, to stop buying equipment that either does or makes them think they will get better, longer, straighter or more control. 

95% of the amatuer male golfing world can not generally play courses over 6700 yards without exceeding their level of talent nor with greater effect.   Allow for altitude advantage, and mayber 7000 yards. 

But, if the goal is to get pros back in-touch with the concept of par, well then, something must be done, or readjust our mentality that pros and highly skilled ams will start to shoot 57-62 more frequently on current length courses in soft conditions with this B&I equipment. 

 

[John Moore II]

So the question is this - now that there have been two in a little less than a month, does it mean as much?

I'd hate to see 59 turn into 62 (as in 62 home runs) and lose the rarity it has.

Five guys have hit 60 home runs or more. One (McGwire) has admitted to taking steroids during one of the seasons he hit more than 60 (he did it twice), and two others are suspected of juicing. Beyond the 5 season stretch from 1997 (when McGwire hit 58) to 2001 (When Bonds hit 73) where 60+ HR's were hit 6 times, only Ryan Howard (with 58 in 2006) has approached 60. You also have to consider with baseball that many new ballparks have been specifically built with shorter right field walls, allowing left handed batters (majority of power hitters are left handed) to hit the home runs easier.

Its all been said here, but the fact is, we've seen 3 guys shoot 60 and 2 guys shoot 59 in the past month. Each time the course was playing soft and at the Deere, it was lift, clean and place. In each of these three events, there we numerous guys shooting numbers at 63 or better. Outside of those three events, there have been 11 rounds of 62 or better (Goosen at the Sony, Watson and Shane Bertsch at the Hope, Michael Sim at Torrey Pines [north course most likely], Villegas at Phoenix, McIlroy at Quail Hollow, Cameron Beckman at the Byron Nelson [shot 61], Bryce Molder at Colonial, Ricky Barnes at Memorial [lowest of the week by 3], Justin Rose at the Travelers, and Graham Delaet?? at Reno [his only below 70 and lowest round of the week by 3]) In the three weeks in question there were 2 rounds of 59: Goydos and Appleby; 3 rounds of 60: Stricker (Deere), Petterson (Can), and J.B. Holmes (GB); 1 round of 61: Points (GB); and 4 rounds of 62: Overton (GB), Kevin Sutherland (Can), Brent Delahoussaye (Can), and Stricker (Deere).

So lets count it up: 11 rounds of 62 or less in 30 events; 10 rounds of 62 or less in the 3 other events. Are we really looking at a trend or just a perfect combination of scoring and great play at the 3 events? I'm leaning way, way towards the second option.


Another little stat: Bobby Wyatt's 57 in the Alabama Junior was the lowest score of the tournament by 7 and his personal lowest by 11.

[Kenny Baer]

Wyatt's previous best ever score was 68? I find that hard to believe; he earned a scholarship to Alabama.  They don't just give those out to anybody.

[John Moore II]

Wyatt's previous best ever score was 68? I find that hard to believe; he earned a scholarship to Alabama.  They don't just give those out to anybody.

Lowest in the tournament. His scores were 68-57-70.

[Chris Buie]

Moe Norman shot 59.
On three separate occasions.
I wonder if anybody has topped that?

[John Moore II]

Moe Norman shot 59.
On three separate occasions.
I wonder if anybody has topped that?

They mentioned on the telecast that Sam Snead shot 59 something like 20 times at The Greenbrier. But Moe did it 3 times in competition.

[Adam Clayman]

Adam - do you advocate the rollback for the entire game or just the professional game?  Here in crappy amateur land, where 90% of us golfers reside, I am happy to report that the game is just as hard as it has ever been.  I can see the argument for reigning in the pros just because we are running out of distance on our championship tracks and they are only a very small part of the game anyway, but chalk me up as one that will still be using my 460cc driver and still hitting it only 240 yards when the technology deputees come calling.

This topic always tears me up because I do think that the pro game is out of control but I also think making the game harder when it is already too hard for most tha play it isn't the answer. This leaves me in a position to advocate the movement to bifurcate.

Tim, I'm not so sure a ball roll back would hurt your game at all. Clubs and all and maybe I'd believe that. Also, harder is not really reflective of what it would be. Is it? You'd likely move up a tee (or a few yards) and have fun being challenged more. Wouldn't you? You'd still hit all the same shots and still have chances for recovery, but you'd also have greater satisfaction from over coming a perceived obstacle. Real or imagined. I played a Professional 90 recently, and saw absolutely no difference in distance. But I am no scientist and my swing speed is 99-100.   Bifurcation is not really the answer either, unless the PGA Tour wanted to show respect to the sport, that has made them billions, they could consider just playing whatever the USGA and R&A dictate. Golf!
 This whole era of following what the pros do, and, if it's not on tour it won't sell, will never get the sport back to being a sport where poor shots are their own penalty and finesse through shot making is the high water mark for who is then considered great. NOT the bombers who have mainly one ball flight, one trajectory.

I realize I'm the idealist, and not the guy who matters one bit. But as far as the length of the courses, time it takes to play, and, the cost to build courses going forward in to the future, we can no longer keep up with the Jonses anymore. The price is too high, and from what I gather, the infectious attitude of; screw everybody else, let's concentrate on MY game, is too far ingrained and pervasive in the mindsets of nearly everybody, to ever get anything to ever change. So don't worry, but feel guilty. 

Did anyone see Jeff Overton's tude after he missed his birdie Sunday on the penultimate hole? Paled in comparison to the class Mr. Appleby showed shooting his 59.

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