A relative dearth of high quality design in Texas?

[Jim Jackson]

 
One would expect that a state with such land mass, diverse geography, great weather, and avid golfers would fill the discussion boards and national rankings more than is the case.  In fact, despite Dallas National, Whispering Pines, and Colonial, there are no well accepted US top 100 courses (save of course Wolf Point). 
 
Why is this the case?  There is sandy soil and dunes in the coastal regions, especially the Port Aransas area, thick lush pines in East Texas, and fantastic opportunities in hill country of Austin/SA to name a few.  We have had a few of the nation's best design here, even in the recent past, with Doak, C/C, Fazio, Norman, Dye and Nuzzo recently represented.   
 
I'm relatively new to Texas, but wonder if there are great courses flying under the radar, or what the reason for this underrepresentation on this site and national rankings could be.  Anyone aware any big upcoming projects?

My own personal 10 favorites, to go on record (noting that I have not seen many of the best)
1.  Crown Colony, Lufkin 
2.  Oak Hills, SA
3.  Royal Oaks, Dallas
4.  The Bandit, New Braunfels
5.  Walden, Lake Conroe
6.  Lochinvar
7.  Houston CC
8.  San Antonio CC
9.  Pecan Valley GC, SA
10.  Brackenridge Park, SA
11 +++.  Norman Course at the TPC SA

[Don_Mahaffey]

I've never heard the word dearth used in Texas.

[Bill_McBride]

It will be interesting to see if Wolf Point is ever ranked in Texas.

If it is, it will be VERY high.  But it's doubtful.

[Ben Sims]

I'm relatively new to Texas, but wonder if there are great courses flying under the radar, or what the reason for this underrepresentation on this site and national rankings could be.  Anyone aware any big upcoming projects?

I still haven't put my finger on why Texas golf as a whole isn't very good.  I think a lot of it has to do with the weather.  I also think a lot of it has to do with the culture.  Amenities are more important than the course in many of my experiences.  That said, here's an attempt to answer

1)  Rawls Course, Republic, Tribute (oddly enough), Butterfield are all places I'd play again.  Delaware Springs is pretty solid.  Rockport CC if you can get on.

2) El Boqueron was a project being mentioned in Austin,  I think it's on the fritz right now though. 

[Cliff Hamm]

Since Florida is stated by many to also lack quality designs, what do these two states have in common?

[JeffTodd]

Since Florida is stated by many to also lack quality designs, what do these two states have in common?

I see where you're going with this, but I don't think we can blame the Bush family for this one. 

[Phil_the_Author]

Don,

They used to use the word "dearth" in Texas all the time as in the sentence "I shot that there varmint to dearth..."

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Texas probably is weak on high quality designs relative to its land size, population and wealth. It is very weak say compared with the quality of players it produces. I am struggling to put half Jim top 10 in a top 20 in Texas. The Maxwells and Joe Lee spent a lot of life in this state. Whispering Pines, Dallas National, Colonial and Champions do belong in a Texas top 10. The Fazio course and either of the courses at La Conterra top the Bandit or anything else in San Antonio other than Pecan Valley or Breckenridge Park. Wolf and Rawls should be in this dicussion as well.

[Jason McNamara]

The soil in eastern Texas is best used for cracking a slab.  I don't water my lawn, I water my foundation.  And even the areas that do have a little elevation are generally pretty gradual in their movement.  That gets better once you get to central Texas.  Bottom line, you're generally stuck building on clay, and the glaciers never made it here.

If you separate the club from  the courses (and hey, this is an architecture site), I don't see how Champions belongs in a top 10 list.  If you include the founders, history, and whatever boost some seem to want to give it for the overall skill of its members, sure.  Awesome club, OK course.

[paul cowley]

We...Lanny Wadkins Design Group...are opening a new course at Lajitas Resort this October that is on the Rio Grand in the Big Bend area of west Texas. Exotic locale in the Old West....an interesting combination of mountain and river holes.

[Ben Voelker]

We...Lanny Wadkins Design Group...are opening a new course at Lajitas Resort this October that is on the Rio Grand in the Big Bend area of west Texas. Exotic locale in the Old West....an interesting combination of mountain and river holes.

That is a gorgeous area of the country, having made the long drive from Houston to the national park a few years ago. I would be interested to see what the course is like.

It is also a long way from anything.  Is this the most remote golf course in the US when it opens?  El Paso is 300 miles away and is easily the closest city of any size.

Ben

[paul cowley]

Ben....it might be, at least in the lower 48. Midland/Odessa is the closest airport, and that's 4 hrs away. Ft Stockton has the next nearest golf course, and that's 2.5 hrs away. The course name is Black Jack's Crossing after Black Jack Pershing who was stationed at this border crossing while he was trying to round up Pancho Villa. George Patton was his lieutenant.

[Mike Demetriou]

Paul,
Short of "Build it and They Will Come", what was the business plan for building a course this remote? If "They" are to come, how does someone get there? Is this a private course, or someone's trophy course perhaps?

[Mike Nuzzo]

This was from my first interview after our trip to Casa de Campo!
I'll add the following - many of the courses are modern and real estate driven.

Texas enjoys wind, a key attribute for good golf. Yet, why are there so many bad courses in Texas, especially Houston?

For starters, Houston is in the flood plain with mostly wet clay soils. It’s flat, and the market is driven by the very good players who like the examination part of the game best. There are also a lot of tree lined courses that block the best natural component, the robust winds. There are a few exceptions, thankfully.

I went to scout a thirty year old course that was recently sold. There was a pond, really a puddle, precisely in front of the first tee with trees in the left landing area and trees right and in front of the green side bunkers. It played like the original geometric penal school that only punishes the poor to average players. There were trees everywhere, not just the opener. For the good player, the course was cake; the average player would be cheerless. It was complete with an island green.

For a development course, it was fairly easy to walk. But surprisingly, I came upon two healthy young players riding a cart. Embarrassed, they said they would never tell their friends that a walker caught up to them. There are very few places that promote walking.

The designer was a former player, and as such, is all knowing and his word is gospel in these parts. I’ve heard some stories about a proclaimed local designer, who often didn’t visit the construction site.

What is an example of what you would change in Texas?

Wind is a great component, found on the best courses. In general, I’d recommend taking better advantage of our windy conditions. The few courses in Houston that are exposed to the wind have an immediate advantage.

I’d stop the spread out housing courses, which are way too hard to walk and slow to play. I’d like to see more variation with shorter and wider holes with a few hazards thrown in the middle.

As an example, a local course has ample test and not as much variety. There is only room to add a few dozen yards here and there, and that would be at a considerable cost. I proposed swapping two green and tee complexes that would turn four long holes into two longer holes and two short par fours to strengthen the assortment. The shortened holes were also the two blandest on the side. Basically shifting 200 yards from one pair of holes to another. The club liked the idea, but not enough to go ahead and make those significant alterations. A fresh set of talented eyes can make a big difference to the overall quality of a course, often times with just a few detailed enhancements.

[Bill_McBride]

Texas probably is weak on high quality designs relative to its land size, population and wealth. It is very weak say compared with the quality of players it produces. I am struggling to put half Jim top 10 in a top 20 in Texas. The Maxwells and Joe Lee spent a lot of life in this state. Whispering Pines, Dallas National, Colonial and Champions do belong in a Texas top 10. The Fazio course and either of the courses at La Conterra top the Bandit or anything else in San Antonio other than Pecan Valley or Breckenridge Park. Wolf and Rawls should be in this dicussion as well.

Add Brookhollow and Austin Golf Club to Top 10 in Texas.

[David Sneddon]

I still haven't put my finger on why Texas golf as a whole isn't very good.  I think a lot of it has to do with the weather.  I also think a lot of it has to do with the culture.  Amenities are more important than the course in many of my experiences.  That said, here's an attempt to answer

1)  Rawls Course, Republic, Tribute (oddly enough), Butterfield are all places I'd play again.  Delaware Springs is pretty solid.  Rockport CC if you can get on.

2) El Boqueron was a project being mentioned in Austin,  I think it's on the fritz right now though. 

Ben
If you haven't been back to the Tribute lately, they now have another course "Old American" a Tripp Davis/Justin Leonard design.  I haven't played it, but a friend is a member and supposedly it is a fairly demanding course, much tighter than the Trib.

[paul cowley]

Paul,
Short of "Build it and They Will Come", what was the business plan for building a course this remote? If "They" are to come, how does someone get there? Is this a private course, or someone's trophy course perhaps?

Mike it's resort course open to the public....you can fly in to their own airstrip or drive from Midland or El Paso. The owners feel like its a great destination and I agree. Unique.

[Ben Voelker]

This was from my first interview after our trip to Casa de Campo!
I'll add the following - many of the courses are modern and real estate driven.

Texas enjoys wind, a key attribute for good golf. Yet, why are there so many bad courses in Texas, especially Houston?

For starters, Houston is in the flood plain with mostly wet clay soils. It’s flat, and the market is driven by the very good players who like the examination part of the game best. There are also a lot of tree lined courses that block the best natural component, the robust winds. There are a few exceptions, thankfully.

I went to scout a thirty year old course that was recently sold. There was a pond, really a puddle, precisely in front of the first tee with trees in the left landing area and trees right and in front of the green side bunkers. It played like the original geometric penal school that only punishes the poor to average players. There were trees everywhere, not just the opener. For the good player, the course was cake; the average player would be cheerless. It was complete with an island green.

For a development course, it was fairly easy to walk. But surprisingly, I came upon two healthy young players riding a cart. Embarrassed, they said they would never tell their friends that a walker caught up to them. There are very few places that promote walking.

The designer was a former player, and as such, is all knowing and his word is gospel in these parts. I’ve heard some stories about a proclaimed local designer, who often didn’t visit the construction site.

What is an example of what you would change in Texas?

Wind is a great component, found on the best courses. In general, I’d recommend taking better advantage of our windy conditions. The few courses in Houston that are exposed to the wind have an immediate advantage.

I’d stop the spread out housing courses, which are way too hard to walk and slow to play. I’d like to see more variation with shorter and wider holes with a few hazards thrown in the middle.

As an example, a local course has ample test and not as much variety. There is only room to add a few dozen yards here and there, and that would be at a considerable cost. I proposed swapping two green and tee complexes that would turn four long holes into two longer holes and two short par fours to strengthen the assortment. The shortened holes were also the two blandest on the side. Basically shifting 200 yards from one pair of holes to another. The club liked the idea, but not enough to go ahead and make those significant alterations. A fresh set of talented eyes can make a big difference to the overall quality of a course, often times with just a few detailed enhancements.

Mike (and everyone),

What do you think of Memorial Park in Houston?  That was effectively my home course for three years while I lived there and I thoroughly enjoyed playing it on a regular basis.  I used to play 9 holes after work, so I know that side far better and really enjoy 1, 4, 7 and 9.  I always felt 9 is one golf hole where the trees add a lot to the strategy of the hole.  If you lose your drive left, you have to be quite skilled to get your ball anywhere near the green.

Ben

[Mike Nuzzo]

Ben
Memorial is one of my favorites in town.
Park setting - no outside disturbances.
Transco Tower as a target on 1 & 13.
Very easy walk.
Used to be $17 - now $30...
Never played slower than 4:10 - often much less.
Lots of weirdos... I mean characters.
Some pretty cool greens.
4th fairway.
Playable fairways - I rarely lost a ball when playing regularly.
It would be (and was) my home course if I ever played for fun anymore....
Cheers

[Jeff Spittel]

Having grown up in northern NJ and moved here in my late 20s, I've been a bit surprised that there aren't more good courses on offer. As Mike mentioned, in Houston (where I live) it's pancake flat and the soil is less than great. There are a few Bredemus designs in town (Memorial, Westwood, my home club of BraeBurn) but Memorial is the only one that has much of his work left from what I understand. River Oaks CC was originally a Ross, but apparently one of the Fazios ruined it some time ago.

I haven't had the chance to play them, but supposedly there are a few nice under the radar tracks in the Dallas area such as Brook Hollow. Austin Golf Club is difficult to gain access to, but it's a legit Coore/Crenshaw. There is some beutiful rolling land on the drive from Houston to Austin that looks ideal for a course or two. Not sure if that's where they were thinking of for El Boqueron.

[Jim Hoak]

Interesting question.  As a long-time Texan, I have wondered the same thing--how can a state as passionate about golf as any, with avid golfers and professionals as good as any (except maybe Calif. and Florida), and with great resources, have so few--if any--great courses.  I have always blamed it on the soil and the terrrain, but I don't know if that is totally true.
The best course in Dallas, for example, is clearly Brook Hollow, an old Tillinghast design.  It sits on good sandy soil, unlike the rest of Dallas that is on rock.  But as good as Brook Hollow is, no one can really call it great.
The only Texas course that is consistently mentioned in the Top 100 is Colonial, and I do believe it is the best course in the state.  But, again, it is hard to really call it great.  Not even in the top 5 done by Maxwell, probably.
So, I will read the responses here with interest, but I don't think anyone yet has given the right answer--and I don't know what it is.

[David_Tepper]

Anyone played Riverhill (J. Finger/B. Nelson) in Kerrville? Any comments?

[Steve Lang]

  First of all its too darn hot, and especially for Scots..

Mike alluded to it.. residential design driven.. epitomized perhaps by where the wealth is or was during the 1900- WWII period..

River Oaks is an affluent community located in the geographic center of Houston, Texas, United States. Located within the 610 Loop and between Downtown and Uptown, the community spans 1,100 acres (450 ha).[1] Established in the 1920s by brothers William and Michael Hogg, the community became a well-publicized national model for community planning. River Oaks is considered to be one of the wealthiest communities in Texas and has one of the wealthiest zip codes in the United States.[2] Real estate values in the community range from $1 to over $20 million.[3] The community is home to River Oaks Country Club (1923) which includes a golf facility designed by architect Donald Ross

Ross is also credited with on other course in TX, Sunset Grove CC, in Orange County, bet the mosquitos and heat drove him crazy back in his day!

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[Steve Lang]

Anyone played Riverhill (J. Finger/B. Nelson) in Kerrville? Any comments?

no but I've had BBQ in Boerne south of there

[David_Tepper]

no but I've had BBQ in Boerne south of there

Steve -

Remember the name of the BBQ joint? I am planning to visit Kerrville this fall.

DT