[Mike Hendren]

Anybody seen one?

Mike

[Gene Greco]

Or the Isomeric Punchbowl?

[Mark McKeever]

Hole 12 at Schuylkill CC.  The left side of the greeen exemplifies this pretty well.

Mark

[Ed Oden]

Mike, by "reverse" do you mean that (a) the indentation is at the back of the green rather than the front (i.e., it is pointed in a different direction) or (b) the thumbprint is raised rather than indented (i.e., an inverse impression like you would get from a mold)?   

[Mike Hendren]

Mike, by "reverse" do you mean that (a) the indentation is at the back of the green rather than the front (i.e., it is pointed in a different direction) or (b) the thumbprint is raised rather than indented (i.e., an inverse impression like you would get from a mold)?   

Ed, raised rather than indented. Thanks for the clarification.

[Mike Hendren]

Or the Isomeric Punchbowl?

Huh?  Did you learn that at Creighton?  Not a part of the Tennessee education.

[PCCraig]

#6 at Lawsonia Links

[Ed Oden]

Mike, by "reverse" do you mean that (a) the indentation is at the back of the green rather than the front (i.e., it is pointed in a different direction) or (b) the thumbprint is raised rather than indented (i.e., an inverse impression like you would get from a mold)?   

Ed, raised rather than indented. Thanks for the clarification.

Well, in that case, we have one at Carolina.  10th green from in front...


...and from behind...

[Gene Greco]

Or the Isomeric Punchbowl?

Huh?  Did you learn that at Creighton?  Not a part of the Tennessee education.

Indeed. Organic chemistry 30 something years ago.

I guess the isomeric punchbowl would be found on nearly every green Ross ever built.

Better that we don't get into the isomeric maidens...

[Ben Sims]

I seem to remember that the right portion on the 15th green at Ballyneal has a convex, u-shaped area, that's pinnable.  

Some more familiar with Ballyneal can correct me.

I guess the isomeric punchbowl would be found on nearly every green Ross ever built.

Boo!  I was going to say every Ross green and then you chimed in!

[Bill_McBride]

Mr. Bogey, you may recall that our 13th hole at Pensacola Country Club has such a feature right in the middle of this fairly large, bunkerless green at the end of a 440 yard tips, 415 yard middle tee, par 4.

You may be able to see it in this photo, to the right of the pin.  I call it "Jerry's Pimple"after GCA Jerry Pate.  It isn't huge but it affects almost every putt on the green, and plays hell with reading putts on the uphill side where the slope down from the hillside meets the slope off the pimple!

[Niall C]

Don't have any pictures but the hump to the middle/left front of 16th green on Gullane No. 3 makes the hole in my opinion. There is another on the second at Killermont.

Niall

[Phil McDade]

I see a big difference between a reverse (outy) thumb-print and what's been described here.

Pat -- the 6th green at Lawsonia I'd suggest is more of a sharply tiered, two-tier green, almost shelf-like because of the smallish portion of the green that sits below on the left side (looking at it from the fairway) of the green. I wouldn't characterize it as a thumb-print.

Others shown or described are more of the pimple-buried elephant variety, as opposed to a thumbprint. I assume a reverse thumbprint ought to occupy a significant portion of the green, and be somewhat symmetrical, oval-shaped in nature.

[Shannon Wheeler]

#4 East Course, Admiral's Cove, Jupiter, FL

[Sean Leary]

Isn't there something similar to this at Spanish Bay on 11th green?

[Mark Pearce]

There's a really good one on the 10th on Gil Hanse's Craighead course at Crail.

[Ben Voelker]

I'll admit my lack of knowledge

What is the definition of a regular thumb-print green?  I can gather from the posts so far there is a depression near the front of the green.  Is there a specific shape, slope and bunkering/hazard scheme as well?

I would love to see some examples of traditional thumb-print greens as well.  Thanks.

Ben

[Phil McDade]

Ben:

I'll try to post one later today.

Phil

[Ben Voelker]

Thanks Phil

[Mike Hendren]

Ben,

Lately I've been admiring the 12th at Forsgate:



The hole is named "Horseshoe."   

Hillbillies refer to such greens as "toilet seats."

Mike

[Phil McDade]

Bogey:

I think you might recognize this one; not as pronounced as Forsgate, but a true thumbprint.



The flag is on the "upper tier," just beyond the depression of the thumbprint. The large green has several pinnable positions both inside and outside the thumbprint (or seat...).

[Bill_McBride]

I see a big difference between a reverse (outy) thumb-print and what's been described here.

Pat -- the 6th green at Lawsonia I'd suggest is more of a sharply tiered, two-tier green, almost shelf-like because of the smallish portion of the green that sits below on the left side (looking at it from the fairway) of the green. I wouldn't characterize it as a thumb-print.

Others shown or described are more of the pimple-buried elephant variety, as opposed to a thumbprint. I assume a reverse thumbprint ought to occupy a significant portion of the green, and be somewhat symmetrical, oval-shaped in nature.

Maybe the 9th green at Friar's Head qualifies under your definition:

[Phil McDade]

Bill:

Hard to tell from that photo. To me, the ones that are true thumbprints are the Forsgate pic and the one I posted after that. To me, the key part of this is being symmetrical. The Friar's Heard green looks wonderful, but one primarily with bold and irregular contouring. I think a central element that Raynor was trying to get at was using the thumbprint to provide challenges in putting should one find the ball on a separate tier than the pin.

The best buried elephant I've come across lately is from Langford/Moreau's Ozaukee CC (suburban Milwaukee), on the par 5 16th hole. Couiple of pics:

[Ed Oden]

Phil, the 10th green at Carolina (which I posted pictures of earlier) fits your requirements exactly except that the raised thumbprint is generally rectangular with rounded corners rather than being oval.  And I'm not sure the exact shape is relevant as long as it is symmetrical.  The feature makes putting a real challenge.  If you took the 3rd green at Yeamans Hall (which I think is pretty much universally recognized as having a thumbprint in the middle of the horseshoe) and flipped it over so the raised part was back center and tilted it slightly back to front, then you would have the 10th green at Carolina.

[Phil McDade]

Ed:

Thanks -- it was a bit difficult to tell with the shadows in the photos. I agree about the symmetry, and that shape is less important. Who designed Carolina?

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