If you actually spent a week on the site of a golf architecture project.....

[Mac Plumart]

Tom...I reached out to Chris and anxiously look forward to that.  And I agree with you, this could be an amazingly educational opportunity and it all came about from this thread and, therefore, this site.  Stunning to me!!

As for your last question...that is not my business nor my place to voice an opinion. 

[TEPaul]

Go to that project site Mac; you will not believe what you will learn.

Once again, as with your trip to NGLA, I'd like you to visualize and imagine what you think it will be like to go out on a site project and then tell us later how your image differed from what you saw and learned.

Guys like you are most of the reason I'm on here anymore. Guys like you, J.C. Jones, Pallotta, Gill and some others are real learners and open-minded GCA analysts and historians and you're a joy to discuss things with. I don't think 10,000 MacWoods and Moriartys are worth a single one of you guys!

[Chris Cupit]

TP and Mac,

The mini-x has Mac's name all over it and I will bring a camera!  You will get to see a balancing act between Michael Riley, the architect and me with the checkbook! 

Seriously, to watch the crew and architect work together to create something out of nothing is absolutely amazing.  This is a 4-6 week project but you will see:
drainage work, creek bank restoration, tree removal, greens construction, bunker construction, fairway shaping, cart path removal and replacement (figuring out where to put the damn thing ) and watching me watch the budget and having to make painful decisions to say no to some great ideas.

Plus just listening to all the BS is pretty fun too

[Philippe Binette]

you'll learn to things:

1) golf course architecture is a lot less glamourous than the least glamourous experience in your life...

2) it's 10% concepts and ideas... the rest is just work (RW)

[TEPaul]

Chris:

You're number 52 just makes my day and makes this thread worthwhile for me even if I have to put up with the usual Moriarty crap and posts from others like the following:

"This is hilarious.  Tom starts a thread which he quickly turns into a continuation of his passive-aggressive campaign (assuming that was not in fact the impetus for the thread), calls out the usual suspects, then gets all offended when one of the targets returns fire."

Things like the above quote are just the minor distractions of life and the times on here compared to what I believe Mac Plumart is about to experience (and hopefully others with other projects) because of a thread thought like this one.

Thanks, Pal. What Mac Plumart is about to get into, in my book, is what GOLFCLUBATLAS.com is ultimately all about or should be.

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom Paul,

The last time I was on site during a golf course project was at Old Macdonald.

Looking over the Redan and the Road Hole I learned that Tom Doak and Jim Urbina have a far greater ability to visualize golf holes than I do.

Can't wait to see the finished product which may reallly confirm this point.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Just like numerous other threads on here, this one's really going to excell..OH BOY, I CAN'T WAIT.   

JKM,

So you are anticipating another fun filled gca thread that is full of excrement....er I mean excitement?

[Jason McNamara]

You're number 52 just makes my day and makes this thread worthwhile for me even if I have to put up with the usual Moriarty crap and posts from others like the following:

"This is hilarious.  Tom starts a thread which he quickly turns into a continuation of his passive-aggressive campaign (assuming that was not in fact the impetus for the thread), calls out the usual suspects, then gets all offended when one of the targets returns fire."

Things like the above quote are just the minor distractions of life and the times on here compared to what I believe Mac Plumart is about to experience (and hopefully others with other projects) because of a thread thought like this one.

Since you've quoted me, I'll reply.  When you made your original post, I thought this thread was going to be useful.  If in your reply #6 you'd written only the first sentence and not the gratuitous second, this would have been a great thread solely for its educational value.  But it turns out you aren't just content with pissing on others' threads - apparently if you don't see a suitable vehicle for tweaking a couple people, you must resort to using your own thread.  That's OK in this case - we wound up with substantial entertainment value.

I imagine you'll blame others for misinterpreting what surely were your innocent observations.  But your prods are few, predictable, and the worse for wear.


Mac and Ben, I look forward to your reports.  I've gotten to see a couple sites under construction, and it's great stuff.  If possible, I especially recommend walking in lots of greenside bunkers to get a feel for the myriad options they'll offer.

[TEPaul]

Ben Sims:

What do you mean you have 30 days of leave? Are you in the military?

Let's find you a good project and site to go visit. Which architects would you most enjoy meeting and hanging around on a site with? Have you asked MacWood and Moriarty to join you yet? If so which architects do you feel they would most like to hang out with? For MacWood, I would personally recommend Ron Prichard. Moriarty is a bit harder to tell but Tom Fazio or Rees Jones just might be the ticket for him. Or if you guys would like to learn from a true "macro thinker" and with a military background and an incredible knack for all things Topo Maps, I would be delighted to introduce you all to my new best friend, the one and only LESTER George! He's a trip and if you really buy into his outlook then I suggest all of you go over to Afganistan with him and win this damn war for us once and for all.

[Steve Lang]

  TEP,

I seem to remember a long time ago a thread where you were out in the hills or somewhere with C&C?  Where or when or with what architect or project did you get to do that?

  

p.s. Bens Sims is a pilot and I believe has done more than his part in military service..

[TEPaul]

Steve:

With Coore it was at particularly Friars Head and Hidden Creek which pretty much were going on simultaneously. Before that I got to know him and spent a number of days on a project called "Ardrossan" which was a move of my club and which never happened in the end. I've only met Ben Crenshaw once, at Friars Head, but for various reasons over the years I've talked to him on the phone quite a lot. Ben is one of the easiest guys to talk to I've ever known. You can't really deal with either of them on something like the Internet. I think they still joke that neither one of them even knows how to turn on a computer, and they don't plan on learning either.

[TEPaul]

"p.s. Bens Sims is a pilot and I believe has done more than his part in military service.."


No problem. If Ben Sims goes to Afganistan with "Macro Guy" Lester George he may get to watch Lester design and plan a 670,000 square mile golf course outta the whole damn country. Lester likes big challenges and I hear the topography over there is a pretty big challenge. When Lester is reaming out the big redan bunker on his 57 mile long redan iteration it would not surprise me if he finds and captures that SOB Osama Bin Laden.

[Joe Hancock]

He's a trip and if you really buy into his outlook then I suggest all of you go over to Afganistan with him and win this damn war for us once and for all.

We're not real big on ending wars around here, win or lose.

Joe

[Steve Okula]

He's a trip and if you really buy into his outlook then I suggest all of you go over to Afganistan with him and win this damn war for us once and for all.

We're not real big on ending wars around here, win or lose.

Joe

Good thread jack. Always a reason to start a war, never a reason to end one. 

[Tim Nugent]

that was some fun reading - Sans the cat fight.  Having spent more time than I can remember on-site, I would guess that the one thing that would become evident is just how short one week really is.  A couple other things:

How the scale of the site changes as different tasks are accomplished.  For instance, laying out side by side golf house in an open field and it 'feels' like they are right on top of one another but clear 100' in a forest and you would think you have "all the room in the world to play in".

How many times what looks to be completed work is torn up to install more stuff - drainage, irr, etc.

How serine and beautiful a site is after the topsoil has been floated prior to seeding and the sun is setting over the landscape and all the shadows come out.

Alas, it takes more than just a week to take it all in.  I would suggest at the least 4 weeks, one every couple months, just to get a sense of the magnitude of the undertaking and the metamorphis that the site goes through.

I realize it is far away from most (Ville Nurmi is the only local GCA'r I know of), but I will on-site shaping in Helsinki starting the end of Aug if anyone wants to stop by.  Wish I had something closer but... not in this economy.

[Ben Sims]

Ben Sims:

What do you mean you have 30 days of leave? Are you in the military?

Let's find you a good project and site to go visit. Which architects would you most enjoy meeting and hanging around on a site with? Have you asked MacWood and Moriarty to join you yet? If so which architects do you feel they would most like to hang out with? For MacWood, I would personally recommend Ron Prichard. Moriarty is a bit harder to tell but Tom Fazio or Rees Jones just might be the ticket for him. Or if you guys would like to learn from a true "macro thinker" and with a military background and an incredible knack for all things Topo Maps, I would be delighted to introduce you all to my new best friend, the one and only LESTER George! He's a trip and if you really buy into his outlook then I suggest all of you go over to Afganistan with him and win this damn war for us once and for all.

Indeed.  I'm in the Air Force.  I fly trainers as an Instructor Pilot, with a former life as a C-17 pilot.  Been to Iraq and Afghan on many, many occasions.

I'll probably contact any architects on my own Mr. Paul.  Thank you for the help, but I doubt any of them would answer this sort of thing publicly, as it would create a firestorm of other wannabes like me wanting to trudge around a site being a walking insurance nightmare. 

[Eric Smith]

deleted

[TEPaul]

"I'll probably contact any architects on my own Mr. Paul.  Thank you for the help, but I doubt any of them would answer this sort of thing publicly, as it would create a firestorm of other wannabes like me wanting to trudge around a site being a walking insurance nightmare."

Contacts any architects you want on your own Ben, but if you want our help don't worry about petty stuff like insurance and such; we generally arrange this kind of thing through like the NSA or CIA and the like.  

[Mac Plumart]

As an FYI, today Chris got me out to see his course and the work being done.  Hole 7 was just finished, and hole 8 is being worked on right now, with 9 green to follow.

I took some photos of the work in progress on 8 and will get back out there as things progress and take photos of the finished hole.

Got to meet Chris, Mike Riley (the architect), and the crew.  Awesome experience thus far.  And the course looks truly amazing!!  It might be one of the biggest hidden gems I've ever seen.  No joke!

I'll post the pictures after my next visit, assuming it is ok with Chris.

Chris, thanks!  This morning was awesome!!

[archie_struthers]

 

I think most would be shocked at how much the construction aspects of the job overwhelm the architecture discussions/ work....the architect needs to get his construction guys to understand his thoughts and plans .. this is why so many "name architects" used to refuse a job without imput on the construction company doing the work....mnay architects have confidence in people who knowtheir "style"  ....I might argue that this isn't great and results in formulaic shaping and green sites ....THATS WHY  architectural firms need loyalty from their key employees who really have some skills in this area, or the boss should stay on the job , this is often the key shapers .   If you leave all the supervision of the work to the construction company watch out below!

[Dan Herrmann]

I'd like to see how the architect shapes green slopes.   I'm amazed at the contours they build while having to take boring stuff like drainage into account.

[Tom MacWood]

No, but I did spend the night at a Holiday Inn Express.

[TEPaul]

Yeah, Tom MacWood, I see on one of the high-tech click options of this website that you are looking at this old thread. As I have said to you for years on this website, spending a week or more on the site of an architectural project is something you should try which apparently you never have. Don't believe me, because you obviously don't like to----listen to others then----and if you do or can you would just not believe what you could and probably would learn about golf course architecture that you pretty obviously do not know.

[Tom MacWood]

Its obviously done wonders for you.

[DMoriarty]

Yeah, Tom MacWood, I see on one of the high-tech click options of this website that you are looking at this old thread. As I have said to you for years on this website, spending a week or more on the site of an architectural project is something you should try which apparently you never have. Don't believe me, because you obviously don't like to----listen to others then----and if you do or can you would just not believe what you could and probably would learn about golf course architecture that you pretty obviously do not know.

Wow.  TEPaul monitors Tom MacWood's movements from thread to thread.   Creepy.