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Chris Buie

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Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« on: July 23, 2010, 03:53:41 PM »
GC writer Rex Hoggard apparently likes the course but says it is not a true links course - yet.  He says a course has to have a long history before it can be called a true links course.
What do you think of that?

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/travel-punch-shots/bandon-dunes-bring-scotland-golf-america-38242/

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2010, 03:55:48 PM »

Will MacEwen

Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2010, 03:56:49 PM »
GC writer Rex Hoggard apparently likes the course but says it is not a true links course - yet.  He says a course has to have a long history before it can be called a true links course.
What do you think of that?

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/travel-punch-shots/bandon-dunes-bring-scotland-golf-america-38242/

That seems really simple.  Not good simple.

I guess he drew the short straw in one of those mandated point-counterpoint bits, like co-hosts on sports radio.

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2010, 03:58:56 PM »
So the Hackett courses in Ireland also aren't links?  That doesn't make any sense. 

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2010, 04:00:37 PM »
Doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me either.  It has all the characteristics/inspirations of a links course.

Mark
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"Dude, he's a total d***"

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2010, 04:03:21 PM »
am i rembering correctly that the real definiton of a links is a course which is on land left behind by the receding sea?
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2010, 04:17:09 PM »
Main Entry: linksˇland
Pronunciation: \ˈliŋ(k)s-ˌland\
Function: noun
Date: 1926
: seaside terrain that is characterized by rolling hills of sand and is often used as the site of golf courses

Or http://www.worldgolf.com/features/links-golf-meaning.htm

No mention of history being a requirement

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2010, 04:19:57 PM »
Did Bandon bring Scotland to America?  Did they drag Melvyn and the Fat Baldy Drummer and their kin here?  

I don't think history has too much to do with a definition of a links.  I am pretty sure that we have morphed the definition of links to be most any seaside, bluffs, either manufactued or natually sandy, on high or low dunesland, into the category of "links".  

I'll stick with my own understanding of links, which is a land adjacent to water, estuary, etc., not fit for intense agriculture beyond gazing, typically sandy with enough fertility to allow it to be naturally grassy,  generally windswept with interesting land formations occuring and changing in a natural state, and possibly said type of land that 'links' a toon to a beach or other access to the water.

To me, we should leave the designation 'links' back in the old country, where it has been called such authentically at a few places (this is where the history comes in) and move along and call the new courses designed on sandy, seaside, windswept, prairie, bluffs, dunesland and such, as such.  

Bringing Scotland to America is like them having a bagpiper blow down the flag at the end of the day, quaint, characturization and faux imagery, but not really bringing Scotland to America.  Even Craig Ferguson brought a hint of Scotland to America, then sent it back again when he took up American Citizenship.  
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2010, 04:20:17 PM »
Tell Rex he has to come up with a better one than that to rule out Bandon. He just ruled out Castle Stuart! Maybe his motivation is to keep a creation of The Donald from being called a "true" links.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Guy Nicholson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2010, 04:23:32 PM »
By this definition, none of the links courses were links courses in their early decades.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2010, 04:27:54 PM »
Will - funny, and probably exactly right.

People will say a lot of things. But to paraphrase: you beat a reporter long enough and he'll tell you he started the %&#@*%Chicago Fire, but that doesn't necessarily make it %#@*&!*$ so!!

Sometimes I pity the paid writer, having to churn out something every day whether or not he has got anything to churn out.

Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2010, 04:49:41 PM »
Classic case of someone making a decision based on emotion and rationalizing up an answer...

The word poseur springs to mind.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2010, 04:58:37 PM »
::)
H.P.S.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2010, 06:00:34 PM »
Then how many years does it take to become a links?  Has Turnberry been around long enough?

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2010, 06:04:36 PM »
I don't have my copy of Robert Price's Scotland's Golf Courses handy. If I recall his definition of links land correctly, I think he would fault Bandon Dunes as a true links course because the land it sits on is well above sea level, 100 feet or more. The land is not "of the sea," it is above the sea. By his definition, the age of the course is not relevant.

That certainly does not mean that Bandon Dunes & the other courses there cannot or do not play like a links course.

  
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 06:07:47 PM by David_Tepper »

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2010, 06:32:17 PM »
To my way of thinking linksland has to be defined by its geological and evolutionary history.  That does not mean that sea-scape courses cannot play in the manner of links course as was previously mentioned. I don't think that having "history" can be a defining characteristic.
Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2010, 06:34:23 PM »
Hmm - I think ANGC is now a true links.  It has history - what else is required?

what a load of baloney - How did this guy get a byline?

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2010, 06:40:41 PM »
It can't be a true links course. Too many Americans like it.  ::)

Phil_the_Author

Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2010, 07:04:25 PM »
Since when is George Peper ancient enough to have defined a term such as "links?"

How long did St. Andrews, et.al. have to have been around to have gathered enough "history" to have finally become a links course...

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2010, 07:51:58 PM »
What on earth is the point of making a debate out of this?  What's to gain from artificially forcing a dumb argument about whether Bandon Dunes is linksy or not?  They must be seriously low on material.
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Wade Schueneman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2010, 08:47:29 PM »
Does anyone have any reason to call into question the following account from "Masters of Design."

The word 'links' derives from the Old English hlinc or 'lean'.

If this is correct, any sandy, fast-draining seaside property that has enough nutirents to grow fescues, bents, or marram grasses (but grows very little else other than heather, gorse etc.) is probably linksland in the stricktest sense.

My personal opinion is that the term "links" is so widely used and generally misunderstood that it offers little in the way of utility.  Instead of focusing on whether on not to categorize BD as a links, I think that it would have been better to simply describe and critique the course with as much precision and specificity as possible.  Little is gained from imprecise categorical labels.

 

Chris Flamion

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2010, 09:00:58 PM »
I hope someone put him up to that...

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2010, 09:03:10 PM »
RJ:

Bandon DUnes fits every part of your definition of a links course except for the very last -- it does not link the town to the sea.  But all the dunes in Bandon are formed by the wind blowing sand up from where the river feeds it out to sea down toward town ... the same as Gullane #1 and 2 and 3.

George Peper and Malcolm Campbell's new book on links golf uses a pretty strict definition, and by their definition the only links courses in the USA are Highland Links on Cape Cod (which is, incidentally, on a bluff 100 feet high), and Bandon Dunes, Pacific Dunes, and Old Macdonald.  I suggested Maidstone as well, but only a few of the holes at Maidstone are true links, not enough for George.

Holding the definition of "links" to the UK is ridiculous.  There are plenty of golfers in Holland ready to fight you over that, with an excellent case on their side.  And honestly, Barnbougle is as much a links as anything in Scotland or Ireland.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Channel says Bandon Dunes is not true links course
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2010, 09:04:26 PM »
I don't have my copy of Robert Price's Scotland's Golf Courses handy. If I recall his definition of links land correctly, I think he would fault Bandon Dunes as a true links course because the land it sits on is well above sea level, 100 feet or more. The land is not "of the sea," it is above the sea. By his definition, the age of the course is not relevant.

That certainly does not mean that Bandon Dunes & the other courses there cannot or do not play like a links course.

  

He should slip over to Wales and play Pennard, "the links in the sky."