River Vale CC(Ross) in Northern NJ saved from development?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Just 15 minutes from Manhattan. The town of River Vale offers almost 17M. The owners are in Chapter 11.


http://www.northjersey.com/news/99083094_Town_s_offer_is_first_step_in_saving_golf_club.html

http://www.rivervalecc.com/

[Brad Tufts]

Looks like a great move for the town, they can win all the battles.

This place isn't listed on the Ross Society list though....was it known as something else before?

Ross courses in NJ, according to Society listing....Crestmont, Deal, Echo Lake, Engelwood (closed), Essex, Homestead (closed), Knickerbocker, Lone Pine (closed), Montclair, Mountain Ridge, Plainfield, Ridgewood (Ross version NLE), Riverton, Seaview-Bay.

Any clues? Or was it 100% Orrin Smith?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The website says Ross and his associate Smith.

This is from golflink.com

"The 18-hole "Bergen" course at the River Vale Country Club facility in Rivervale, New Jersey features 6,470 yards of golf from the longest tees for a par of 72 . The course rating is 70.7 and it has a slope rating of 130.  Designed by Orrin E. Smith, the Bergen golf course opened in 1928. Scott Keh manages the course as the General Manager. "

This says Ross and Smith:

http://www.oobgolf.com/courses/course/8844/Rivervale_Country_Club.html

Here's another article about the developer:
http://www.northjersey.com/news/86741607_River_Vale_Country_Club_bankruptcy_is_latest_woe_for_Bergen_developer.html

[Jud_T]

Awesome. One of my old stomping grounds.

[Bill Brightly]

That is great news, Steve, I really hope the town takes over the course. I live 10 minutes away and there are far too few public options in Northern NJ, the last thing we need is to lose a solid golf course to another housing development...

One of my favorite golf stories happened at this course. About 50 years ago my dad was playing with his near-scratch buddy ahead of 4 Japanese guys. There was a totally bilnd tee shot and they did not wait long enough, and one guy hit a great drive and one-hopped it into my dad's ass. Dad was pissed off and lined up to hit the ball back but his buddy stopped him, then hit the ball 150 yards FORWARD just short of the green. My dad asked why and his buddy said: " becuase that SOB will be spending the rest of his life trying to hit another 350 yard drive..."

[Matt_Ward]

River Vale has really bounced between different parties for a number of years now.

The bones are there for some good golf but no party has seen fit to put serious and consistent $$ into the layout in order to do so. Many have simply purchased the property as a way to reap future benefits from a real estate deal.

The course still has a few holes of note but frankly the heyday of the place was many years ago.

[George_Bahto]

Jud: Awesome. One of my old stomping grounds

I used to play it in the 1960's - the course was usually hard as a rock and you had to play around sprinklers that were running most of the day

[Jud_T]

George,

We used to play it in the early 90s coming down from NYC.  It took forever and you usually got stuck behind a foursome of Japanese ladies stopping for Udon at the turn, but to us it was one of the only decent options within reasonable driving distance of the city that we could get on easily.  Maybe we didn't know any better, but we were happy to have it...

[Richard Hetzel]

Rivervale CC is a decent enough course, tight in spots, but fun to play. Here is a pic from a few years ago that I took during my round....I can post the rest if you like....this land battle has been going on for quite sometime.....

[Bill Brightly]

Post away! Who gets tired of looking at pictures of golf courses?

[Mark McKeever]

Post them up!  I feel like I may have to hop in the car to check it out at some point.

Mark

[Bill Brightly]

You know, this could be one of those fun, sporty courses where I would LOVE to see someone like Mike Keiser step in,blow up the restaurant, bring in a skilled designer, cut down a few thousand trees, and run it on the "golf-only" model that we sometimes talk about here.

Problem is getting around the high value of the land only 30 miles from NYC.

[Richard Hetzel]

Bill,

In in a poor economy, all those lots would be SOLD in less than a few days I bet. I will post pics this evening after the kids go to bed!

[Mike Sweeney]

You know, this could be one of those fun, sporty courses where I would LOVE to see someone like Mike Keiser step in,blow up the restaurant, bring in a skilled designer, cut down a few thousand trees, and run it on the "golf-only" model that we sometimes talk about here.

Problem is getting around the high value of the land only 30 miles from NYC.

Bill,

Honestly, I think River Vale is about 150 trees and a Super with a budget away from a Doak 7. It already is a golf only model. As Matt said, the owners have all had the idea that they could jam through a 9 hole or 0 hole development so the course has suffered.

Along with The Knoll, you are talking about two really fascinating courses in NJ that happen to be public but the people outside of golf screw them up.

[Richard Hetzel]

Can't find my disc with the River vale CC pics.....I will keep looking!

[Matt_Ward]

Guys:

before everyone falls off the wagon -- River Vale would need SUBSTANIAL work. The place has labored underneath inept management types and those who have not had the deepest of pockets to straighten things out. The musky smelling clubhouse is just one sign of major stumblings the place has faced.

The course can certainly be something-- but like I said it's fanciful and even delusional to believe it will happen so quickly -- if ever at all.

River Vale has potential but tons of courses can say the same thing.

[Mike Sweeney]

River Vale has potential but tons of courses can say the same thing.

Matt

Seriously, name a course in New Jersey with more potential than River Vale ? I think The Knoll is about as far as it can go.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

Before you go crazy with all this talk -- here are a few other Jersey layouts that have as much, if not more potential, as River Vale but still have not delivered ...

*Ocean County at Atlantis / Tuckerton
The first George Fazio layout and one that has always seem to trail in what it could be. The downhill par-3 6th is one of the best public holes and sports a PV type look.

*Great Gorge (aka the former Playboy Club) / McAfee
Another solid layout -- the 27-hole complex is now owned by the Crystal Springs folks and I have always believed it could be much better. It's another George Fazio layout. The two best nines are the Quarryside and Lakeside.

*Lakewood Country Club  / Lakewood
Superb "shore" layout that was really cutting edge stype golf years ago -- sad to say, the existing course is just a shadow of what it could be.

Mike, let me know if you need other examples. River Vale has great potential -- but it's not alone in the Garden State by any means.

[Bill Brightly]

Can anyone post a Google Earth image of this course? I don't know how to do that.

The course sits right on Lake Tappan, a public utility-owned reservoir. While we are dreaming, I want to dream about cutting down all the buffer trees so you can see the water and maybe get some wind off the lake (Probably 100% illegal, but fun to think about...)

[Mike Sweeney]

*Lakewood Country Club  / Lakewood
Superb "shore" layout that was really cutting edge stype golf years ago -- sad to say, the existing course is just a shadow of what it could be.

Mike, let me know if you need other examples. River Vale has great potential -- but it's not alone in the Garden State by any means.

I neeeeeed to see that one. Thanks Matt.

[JimFatsi]

Just read this, last posting was from 2010, how did River Dale fair in 2012?