1st/18th Fairway at TOC

[Wayne_Kozun]

It appeared on TV during the coverage this weekend, particularly on Saturday evening with the long shadows, that the 18th fairway is extremely rumpled, as you would expect on linklsland, but on the right side (from the perspective of the first tee) that the 1st fairway looks very flat.  You can somewhat see this on Google Maps although it isn't great for showing the topology.

I don't remember noticing this on my visits to St Andrews - is this really the case?  If so was the right side of this double fairway flattened somewhere along the line?  Why?

[Jamie Barber]

I noticed the same. The 1st fairway surely has been levelled, by comparison to the humps on the 18th?

I didn't noticed when I played, but then, I had hooked so far left I was only just in bounds.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Hope these photos are of some assistance.







               

Melvyn

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

Blasphemy I know, but should they add a bunker 30 yards short of 18 green given how far they hit the ball now?  As it sits now, the 18th hole of golf's home (and major venue) amounts to a long par 3 with very little trouble.  A pot bunker 30-40 yards short would definitely make players think before they blast it up there.  It would bring one additional potential outcome into play (bogey); whereas, now you have to really work to make worse than par there.

[Brent Hutto]

Why is an (extremely) long par 3 with very little trouble inferior to the same hole with a penal hazard encouraging cautious play? At least once in a round (and what better place than the final hole?) I think it's great having an invitation to throw caution out the window. There is no "smart" or "dumb" way to play the eighteenth. No strategy involved. You want to try and make eagle if you're capable of it, birdie if you can't make eagle and you don't want to be the one dumb bastard per day who bogies the easiest Par 4 in the world.

[Mark Chaplin]

Mickleson was interviewed on the Open app re new 17th tee and he stated he was in favour of the harder holes being harder and the easier holes easier. With 17 & 18 he got both.

[Jamie Barber]

I think the finish is quite neat. Really "par" for the two holes is arguably 8, but not as 4-4 more like 4.5-3.5, but it offers a pretty good chance of cumulative scores anywhere between 5 or 6 as high as 9 to 12 over the two holes.

I think the half par helps because you don't want a bogey on 17, even if offset by the "easy" 18th. Golf is a mental game and it's hard to play without thinking of "par".

[Jud_T]

Brent,

It's a fine finishing hole for us mortals.  Particularly after surviving the stretch of 11-17.  Plus don't forget that for the average 15 capper, you're playing the hole in front of 50-100 folks lining the fence, so not getting up and down for birdie has some added pressure....

[Brent Hutto]

Ever since the Open that John Daly won I've been pictured myself in Rocca's shoes. Except after chili-dipping the first one and pulling out a putter, I'd have that putt roll back down the hill as well. But then I'd fall on the ground crying just like Rocca.

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

Right now, all players take a driver on 18 and can hit it almost anywhere with impunity.  What's the strategy in that?  Wouldn't adding a bunker at least make the player hit a good shot to end up on the green while a not-so-good one would be penalized appropriately.  By adding such a hazard, an eagle would still be possible... only a bogey would be added as a potential outcome.

[Tom_Doak]

I think the finish is quite neat. Really "par" for the two holes is arguably 8, but not as 4-4 more like 4.5-3.5, but it offers a pretty good chance of cumulative scores anywhere between 5 or 6 as high as 9 to 12 over the two holes.

Jamie:

I am a big admirer of the two holes and how they combine, but please don't overstate the case.  Has anyone in championship history ever done the two holes in a total of five strokes?

[Brent Hutto]

Jay,

It's the adding of bogey that I would find less than desirable. What's wrong with one hole on the course where the bad outcome isn't being in a bunker. The bad outcome is failing to make an easy (by their standards) birdie or eagle.

In a tournament full of risk/reward balancing acts I enjoy seeing one occasion where the reward is just there for the taking. So they don't have to worry about making a mistake. We get to see them give their best, no-holding-back shot at grabbing the reward that's available. And if they walk away with a par that's an unalloyed shortcoming, no rationalizations of "At least I took five out of the equation by laying up".

[MikeJones]

I think the finish is quite neat. Really "par" for the two holes is arguably 8, but not as 4-4 more like 4.5-3.5, but it offers a pretty good chance of cumulative scores anywhere between 5 or 6 as high as 9 to 12 over the two holes.

Jamie:

I am a big admirer of the two holes and how they combine, but please don't overstate the case.  Has anyone in championship history ever done the two holes in a total of five strokes?

Luke Donald did them in a total of 5 this year.

BTW I think the pros would be glad that they tend to get a flatish lie for that nasty shot into 1. Even with that advantage we saw loads of approach shots not even making it as far as the burn this week. It can be a pretty brutal shot in when it's into the wind as it was all week.

[Ross Tuddenham]

Could the difference in terrain on 1 and 18 be to do with something the commentators mentioned during the open coverage.  I think it was Andrew Cotter who said that the sea used to come much further in and suggested it would have covered the area that is now the first.

So is the 1st reclaimed from the sea where maybe the 18th half has been above ground for a lot longer?

[Jud_T]

I think the finish is quite neat. Really "par" for the two holes is arguably 8, but not as 4-4 more like 4.5-3.5, but it offers a pretty good chance of cumulative scores anywhere between 5 or 6 as high as 9 to 12 over the two holes.

Jamie:

I am a big admirer of the two holes and how they combine, but please don't overstate the case.  Has anyone in championship history ever done the two holes in a total of five strokes?

Luke Donald did them in a total of 5 this year.

BTW I think the pros would be glad that they tend to get a flatish lie for that nasty shot into 1. Even with that advantage we saw loads of approach shots not even making it as far as the burn this week. It can be a pretty brutal shot in when it's into the wind as it was all week.

Mike,

The reason some guys dumped it into the burn is because they tried to get too cute with the front pin placement.  The right play was 15 feet past the pin and an easy par with a chance for a 3.

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

Jay,

It's the adding of bogey that I would find less than desirable. What's wrong with one hole on the course where the bad outcome isn't being in a bunker. The bad outcome is failing to make an easy (by their standards) birdie or eagle.

In a tournament full of risk/reward balancing acts I enjoy seeing one occasion where the reward is just there for the taking. So they don't have to worry about making a mistake. We get to see them give their best, no-holding-back shot at grabbing the reward that's available. And if they walk away with a par that's an unalloyed shortcoming, no rationalizations of "At least I took five out of the equation by laying up".

What is a bad outcome on that hole?  Shouldn't there be the potential for at least a bogey on any hole?  Based on watching the open at TOC over the years (I've never seen it in person), it seems like 18 is completely out of character with the rest of the course.  Can you imagine Augusta finishing with a flat hole with no bunkers and a flatish green?  Why should TOC get a pass for such a thing when any other modern course would get crucified for the very same finish?

[Wayne_Kozun]

So is the 1st reclaimed from the sea where maybe the 18th half has been above ground for a lot longer?

I doubt that is the answer as the change is so abrupt and linear.  Also notice in the first photo posted by Melvyn how the land to the left around the 2nd hole is also very rumpled.

[Jud_T]

Jay,

Have you played TOC? Getting up and down on 18 is no gimme and I would hardly characterize it as flat...

[Brent Hutto]

A bad outcome is a par.

There's no scorecard-wrecker outcome in play on eighteen as there is on nearly all of the other holes. My point is a sensible golfer in a 72-hole stroke-play tournament plays differently when he needs to minimize the chance of a scorecard wrecker than he does when only very, very good shots matter. I simply like getting that one sample of a free-wheeling attempt at eagle out of a 5-hour round. Is that too much to ask?  

[Wayne_Kozun]

Based on watching the open at TOC over the years (I've never seen it in person), it seems like 18 is completely out of character with the rest of the course.  Can you imagine Augusta finishing with a flat hole with no bunkers and a flatish green?  Why should TOC get a pass for such a thing when any other modern course would get crucified for the very same finish?

Jim Finegan remarks in his book on Scottish golf courses that many of them suffer from very weak finishing holes - TOC is one example.  Gullane is similar as is North Berwick - very much weaker holes than their predecessor.  He also remarks that this may be due to the fact that most golf played in Scotland is Match Play so the 18th hole is the least important hole on the course and is rarely needed to determine the match.

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

Yeah, I've never played or seen TOC in person so I guess you can take whatever I have to say with a vat of salt.  I stand by my assesment though that TOC gets a pass on 18 b/c it's the "home of golf" yada yada yada.  I can't think of one other truly great course that counts its weakest hole as the last.  [The match play theory makes sense though... I'd never heard of that one before.]  Also, I'm in no way saying that its easy to get up and down from the Valley of Sin.  I saw more than a few guys make par from just in front of the green to know better.  I am saying that one of the finest courses in the world should not end on a hole that requires very little thought and offers very little strategic merit... a complete abandonment of all the principles that make the course great to begin with.

[Jeff Taylor]

The 18th's @ TOC and North Berwick are not as challenging as the previous holes (both 17th's are spectacular) but there is nothing like coming home. Both finishing holes provide great views, great memories, and a chance to make a good score. I am not a tournament player. I am not interested in playing the hardest 18 holes I can find. The first holes do offer a bit more challenge.
They may not require that much thought but I dare you to have a better experience.

[Marty Bonnar]

I've reached a not inconsiderable age (and weight!) and I still have never seen a picture or drawing of the precise location of Halker's Bunker.
Anyone have such a thing?
It would shurely (don't call me Shurely) have affected the bail-out left on 18?
FBD.

[Jamie Barber]

Jamie:

I am a big admirer of the two holes and how they combine, but please don't overstate the case.  Has anyone in championship history ever done the two holes in a total of five strokes?

I take it you didn't see Luke's finish? OK so he may be in a club of 1 but you get the point

[Link Walsh]

Even though the pros were bombing it down there everyday, they still had different shots to play depending on where their drives ended up and where the pin was.  So I'm okay with the hole, especially considering like many have said that it comes right after the Road Hole.

That being said, I don't think the hole would work except for the fact that it finishes right in the heart of the town like that.  If you put that hole out in the middle of an open field with nothing around, it would just be weird.  Don't forget about the threat of OB also.  Dustin Johnson hit it on the road on Sunday, and it proably cost him a few Ryder Cup points, along with some money.

I have one question though.  Has the R & A ever put the pin way back right on 18 for the Open for a day?  I think I remember seeing that once before at a previous Open, but I'm not positive.  It would have been nice to break up the 4 days straight of having the pin right over the Valley of Sin.  Plus, it would give the pros something different to think about- the threat of hitting OB on your second shot.  Or at least having to hit putter through the Valley of Sin and then another 80 feet to where the hole is would be a difficult shot to see them try.    

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