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Melvyn Morrow

The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« on: July 19, 2010, 07:02:53 AM »
In line with John K Moore interest in my connection to some well known golfers, I have found some information that might be of interest to him re the scores for some earlier Opens  over the then normal 36 Holes.

The Open at Prestwick in 1868 was won with a score of 154 by Young Tommy Morris age 17

Tommy Morris (Young)   St Andrews     154
J Allen                          N. Devon        172
Tom Morris                    St Andrews    155
Charlie Hunter                Prestwick       172
R Andrews                     Perth            159
R Fergusson                   Musselburgh   165
W Park                          Musselburgh   162
W Dow                       Leith             183
     
The Open at Prestwick in 1869 was won with a score of 157 by Young Tommy Morris age 18
First recorded Hole in One at the Station Hole (8th) by T Morris Jun.

Tommy Morris (Young)   St Andrews     157
G M Innes                     Prestwick        172
Tom Morris                    St Andrews     176
Charlie Hunter                Prestwick        187
W Doleman                    St Nicholas      175
D Strath                        St Andrews     169
J Anderson                    St Andrews     173
Tom Dunn          Leith              182
Bob Kirk          Blackheath      168

Recorded Score for the 3 Rounds (12 holes per Round)

1st   6; 4; 4; 6; 5; 5; 3; 1; 6; 3; 3; 4 = 50
2nd  6; 4; 4; 7; 5; 4; 3; 4; 6; 4; 4; 4 = 55
3rd   5; 5; 5; 5; 4; 5; 3; 3; 5; 5; 3; 4 = 52

The Open at Prestwick in 1870 was won with a score of 149 by Young Tommy Morris age 19
Tommy Morris first Hole of the First Round was a 3 for the long Par 5 578 yards hole

Tommy Morris (Young)   St Andrews    149
Bob Kirk                        Blackheath     161
David Strath                  St Andrews    161
Tom Morris                    St Andrews    162
W Doleman                   Musselburgh    169
W Park                         Musselburgh    173
J Anderson         St Andrews     174
J Allan                           North Devon   176
A Doleman         Musselburgh    178
Charlie Hunter                Prestwick        178
T Brown         Musselburgh     180
J Miller                          Musselburgh     183
T Hunter                      St Andrews      185
F Doleman                     Musselburgh    189
W Boyd                        Prestwick         191 
James Hunter                Prestwick         191
W Dow            Musselburgh     198

Recorded Score for the 3 Rounds (12 holes per Round)
1st   = 47
2nd  = 51
3rd   = 51

John , you are right I do have family playing, Tom Morris, Tommy Morris Jun, James Hunter and Charlie Hunter. It actually makes me very proud as at that time in other parts of the world people were killing each other. Yet my ancestors seemingly being very civilised were playing Golf. I hope the golf details may be of interest.

Melvyn

« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 07:59:37 AM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Sores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2010, 07:15:04 AM »
Yeah, you know - shame on those Americans at the time who were fighting to end slavery.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Winning Sores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2010, 07:58:55 AM »
Ryan

Other parts of the world circa 1870 but not centred on your then little country - I never even thought of the USA, anyway I thought your civil war was some years earlier. What war were you fighting in 1868-70?

I was silly me thinking of the Prussian Franco war that humiliated France and lost her some sizeable land.

Sorry Ryan but why do you always think I even consider America -- talk about believing you are the centre of the world, nay the universe.

 You guys need to get a life because there is a lot more in the world than your country. This is what many of you guys do, you jump to conclusions, you don't bother checking first , just jump in with two feet, well after all you are Americans and you do like to KICK BUTT.

Shame on you for being an A/H

Melvyn
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 08:00:31 AM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2010, 08:17:08 AM »
There were also those fighting to keep slavery.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2010, 09:00:19 AM »
Thus far, I'm insulted as an American and a Southerner.  Insult fat people and I'll have the trifecta.

Hey Melvyn,

To what extent did the "Morris" ball, machine made in Old Tom's shop send us down your road to ruin?  Is not the first step on the journey always the most significant?

Why was he entitled to profit from technological advances (primarily from the feathery to the gutty) while today's manufacturers are not? 

I'm not trying to be an a/h - just interested in your opinion.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2010, 09:06:58 AM »
What's the point of this thread?
H.P.S.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2010, 09:14:08 AM »
Melvyn,

On the ESPN telecast of The Open yesterday they showed a blonde woman hanging out the window above the Old Tom Morris golf shop.  They said she was his great-great-granddaughter.  Is she?  What is her relation to you?

P.S. - No loaded question here, I am legitimately curious.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2010, 09:27:36 AM »

Michael

You have me all wrong, please re-read all my posts as I am not anti technology. I want it used to produce a ball that will travel less but allow the golfer all the fun of hitting the hell out of it, Ditto the clubs, but we must do something to control distance, that’s what I am seeking , We have the technology lets use it for the good of golf and its future. My understanding is that we could roll back the equipment to say the end of the Gutty early Haskell period yet still have great fun and excitement on our courses, Perhaps for less money than having to keep modifying our courses. I am certainly not ant technology and I have repeated this point time and time again.

Pat

I post this for interest re scores, but as far as you and John it’s to get up your nose. I remember Old Tom and my family and of playing golf way back past the  mid 1750's,  all you got is remembering the 4th of July.  I am celebrating their lives as its the 150th Open he helped organise and play in - that is Old Tom.  Must really piss you off as you keep going on about it. I have answered your question now please excuse me I have to return and celebrate The Open.

Melvyn

JC

See the Topic about Sheila Walker and you will find your answers

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Sores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 09:46:10 AM »

Shame on you for being an A/H

Melvyn


Who is the A/H?

You make a short-sighted and ignorant comment, you get called out on it and I am the A/H?  Call me a barbarian but even as an avid golfer, but I find a lot more nobility in those fighting for their beliefs than smacking a white ball around.

Right....I'm the A/H.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 09:48:18 AM by Ryan Potts »

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2010, 09:50:47 AM »

Michael

You have me all wrong, please re-read all my posts as I am not anti technology. I want it used to produce a ball that will travel less but allow the golfer all the fun of hitting the hell out of it, Ditto the clubs, but we must do something to control distance, that’s what I am seeking , We have the technology lets use it for the good of golf and its future. My understanding is that we could roll back the equipment to say the end of the Gutty early Haskell period yet still have great fun and excitement on our courses, Perhaps for less money than having to keep modifying our courses. I am certainly not ant technology and I have repeated this point time and time again.

Pat

I post this for interest re scores, but as far as you and John it’s to get up your nose. I remember Old Tom and my family and of playing golf way back past the  mid 1750's,  all you got is remembering the 4th of July.  I am celebrating their lives as its the 150th Open he helped organise and play in - that is Old Tom.  Must really piss you off as you keep going on about it. I have answered your question now please excuse me I have to return and celebrate The Open.

Melvyn

JC

See the Topic about Sheila Walker and you will find your answers


I never said anything about the 4th of July, Old Tom, or anything getting up my nose. My only question was "what is the point of this thread" which is an extremely valid question considering the random scores followed by your dribble. Care to elaborate on what the point of this thread actually is or are you going to bore the rest of us endlessly with posts relating to your agenda?

Must really "get up your nose" that the Champion Golfer of the World gladly skipped over the presentation of the red belt and went for the trophy that really matters.  What an "a/h" huh?
H.P.S.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2010, 09:58:28 AM »

No Pat, the Belts a fake, its replica, its crap, it was all about Prestwick wanting to be there on the day. Nothing to do with me or us.

As for the point, lets just say it seems to get you posting, thats good enough for me.

Have a nice day

Melvyn

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2010, 10:00:29 AM »

No Pat, the Belts a fake, its replica, its crap, it was all about Prestwick wanting to be there on the day. Nothing to do with me or us.

As for the point, lets just say it seems to get you posting, thats good enough for me.

Have a nice day

Melvyn


I can't wait until 2015 when you start posting this same dribble all over again!
H.P.S.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2010, 10:25:56 AM »

Pat

Just for you, why wait until 2015, I'll start again soon and be ready for next years Open. After all my family has a long association with the tournament and of course Golf.

Enjoy yourself till we cross again on this site

Melvyn

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2010, 12:01:43 PM »


You have me all wrong, please re-read all my posts


This clicker has only one button: repeat.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2010, 12:14:34 PM »

Terry

Good to see you joining in, perhaps next time you might consider making a comment on the golfing items. I am certain it will be more productive for us and this site - The ball, just like with the R&A is in your court.

Be good and enjoy your golf

Melvyn

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2010, 01:21:23 PM »
Ryans Potts writes:
You make a short-sighted and ignorant comment, you get called out on it and I am the A/H?  Call me a barbarian but even as an avid golfer, but I find a lot more nobility in those fighting for their beliefs than smacking a white ball around.


What exactly did Mr. Morrow say that was short-sighted or ignorant? He said during the Opens of 1868, 1869 and 1870 other parts of the world people were killing each other. For some reason you decided he must mean the American Civil War which was already over by 1868. So what is the nobility you speak of about wars that were going on in 1868, 1869 and 1870? Are you arguing there was some nobility is who was monarch of Spain?

If not Franco-Prussian, which war of the last part of the 1860s were you considering a noble fight?
Titokowaru's War between the government of New Zealand and the Māori?
The Boshin war in Japan?
Expedition to Abyssinia between British Empire and India (There were probably a few Scots involved in that one.)
War of the Abyssinian Succession between Abyssinian Empire and rebels?
 Te Kooti's War between New Zealand and the Māori again?
Tean Years' War between Spain and Cuba?
Red River Rebellion in Canada?

Come on, don't leave us hanging. Which of these wars were noble, which weren't?

Tough for Mr. Morrow to apologize when he was probably just as clueless as the rest of us which war you were arguing was a noble cause?

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
The Legion is here, the affair is in the bag!
 --Patrice de Mac-Mahon, Duke of Magenta


Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2010, 02:41:01 PM »

Terry

Good to see you joining in, perhaps next time you might consider making a comment on the golfing items. I am certain it will be more productive for us and this site - The ball, just like with the R&A is in your court.

Be good and enjoy your golf

Melvyn


Thanks, Melvyn.  Your contributions are always so productive, provocative and varied that I can't help but tune in from time to time.

And this time, I won't have to reread your post to make sure that I understood your point.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2010, 04:36:59 PM »
"After all my family has a long association with the tournament and of course Golf."

Melvyn -

You have every right to speak with pride of the golfing achievements of your ancestors in generations gone by. Yet, you regularly imply and infer that the accomplishments of your ancestors grant you some special insight and status in the game of golf. I find that curious and rather amusing at times.

We have 1,500 participants on the site. We are fortunate that a good number of them have devoted a major portion of their lives to golf. We have:

a) a number of very accomplished players who have competed with success in regional and national golf tournaments. A few have even competed in major championships, including the Open.
b) a number of practicing and successful golf course architects who have studied, apprenticed and worked their way up the ladder designing, building and renovating golf courses.
c) a number of golf course superintendents and greenskeepers, who roll out of bed each morning, well before daylight, to make sure their courses are in playable condition.
d) a number of golf course professionals, who teach the game and make sure the members, guests and patrons at their clubs and courses have an enjoyable experience.
e) a number of people who have written one or more books about golf.
f) a number of people who work in golf shops, fitting clubs, building clubs, repairing clubs, etc.

Then there are the rest of us, people who enjoy the game for the fun we have playing it and enjoying the people we meet thru the game. We enjoy traveling, when we can, to see different courses and play different types of golf. We enjoy reading about golf and watching it played at the highest levels.

Clearly you have a deep interest in and passion for the game. The historic information you access and post on this website is a wonderful resource to many, I am sure.  

What has your "association with the tournament and of course Golf" been? Did you ever compete in the event as a player? Participate as a rules official, a marshall, an usher in the grandstands? Work on the St. Andrews grounds crew?

Other than the coincidence of your birth, what have you done in the game of Golf that grants you the status you seem so anxious to proclaim? What have you done that makes you think you are better able to define the nature and spirit than anyone else here? What makes you think you care more about the game than the rest of us?

DT      
  

            
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 04:38:49 PM by David_Tepper »

Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2010, 09:06:46 PM »

David

Having just read your post you have lefty me no option but to reply.
After all my family has a long association with the tournament and of course Golf." 

True as for golf that so far has been traced back to the 1750’s at TOC. As for the Tournament Old Tom played in 35 Opens then continued to start them well in to the 1900’s I think I have confirmed my family commitment and that is just Old Tom. Do you want me to bore you with some of the rest?


You have every right to speak with pride of the golfing achievements of your ancestors in generations gone by. Yet, you regularly imply and infer that the accomplishments of your ancestors grant you some special insight and status in the game of golf. I find that curious and rather amusing at times.

That David is jus a blood lie clearly you and perhaps other not reading my posts. I have always said that I am just an ordinary guy, nothing special at all about me, that I have never traded off my family even for a drink. In fact the only times I use my family connections is to help other on this site get information or the courtesy of the course. I can only think of two at this moment one being trying to assist Kyle re Castle Stewart pre opening and Niall at Lamlash. I have said it before and I will repeat it again I have no special right, status or whatever.

The problem is I feel you think with others that this is my attitude, so you read things that are just not there. I answer questions and pass on information on this site. Yes I have strong opinions, but am I now again being censored for daring to offer my opinion. God I expect to be up in front of your Congress to answer questions on what some consider un American activities i,e, walking instead of riding and using my brain instead of an electronic aid. 

David accuse me of what I have done not what you think I am doing.

As for the site and its Members, what do you expect me to say when I have already told you I claim no special treatment, I am just an ordinary bloke who has played golf since the 60’s.

As for my involvement in the game, no I have not been involved in promoting carts, encouraging people to ride than walk, assisting then in getting lazy and unfit. Nor have I helped them seek early senility by promoting distance information, A healthy mind and body is one that is used on a regular basis.

David you and the likes are Pricks, you accuse me of something I am not guilty of because in your little minds you think I am, you don’t seem to check.

You don’t like my tone , you don’t like my attitude to the way you play golf, get over it, its a DG not a Committee Meeting to take some sort of action. There is no general agreement or signed statement, we are just a DG where we offer our opinions and views, some are discussed some are not. One thing I will say is that I am not into the lists of the top 100 or 50 courses for me I see that as counter productive for a site interested in GCA, however clearly the majority love these list which IMHO takes away from the potential quality of this site.

You got it wrong, you are trying to find me guilty no, you have found me guilty of a crime I have not committed.

I do not want any position in the golf industry from club to Governing Body, I never have, as for status I seek nothing either. The whole point is that I have always offered my own opinion, not that of any member of my family and certainly not that of Old Tom or the Hunters.

Your attack upon me stinks, I would rather you openly have a go at me as Par Craig, at least I know his dislike of me, there is an honesty in that which your post has certainly not show.

Melvyn

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2010, 09:32:45 PM »
"I know it's The Open and I certainly know what it means with 8 Open Victories to my family name."

Melvyn -

You make a statement like the one above and then you say you don't use your family heritage to enhance your status on this board? Can you possibly be serious?

DT



   

Mike Sweeney

Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2010, 09:50:21 PM »
In fact the only times I use my family connections is to help other on this site get information or the courtesy of the course. I can only think of two at this moment one being trying to assist Kyle re Castle Stewart pre opening and Niall at Lamlash. I have said it before and I will repeat it again I have no special right, status or whatever.

Melvyn

Melvyn

I am not sure if Google has made it over to Scotland yet, but here is a direct quote from you:

"One further item which may or may not be of interest to you, I am a direct descendent of Old Tom Morris (my great, great grandfather) with family connections with Charlie Hunter and Willie Rusack."

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2009/07/are-carts-and-gps-devices-spoiling-game.html

Please inform us how that is not using your family connections to advance your agenda? By the way, try spell check next time. It is a modern tool that might support your cause.  ;)


Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2010, 10:08:59 PM »

David - MIke

 I will contact Barry and Rob The Walking Golfer and ask for the articles to be rmemoved - I was just trying to help them when they asked me - best removed don't want people thinking that I am being used to help others. That would never do.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2010, 07:48:44 AM »
"David you and the likes are Pricks, you accuse me of something I am not guilty of because in your little minds you think I am, you don’t seem to check."

Charming.
H.P.S.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2010, 07:50:53 AM »
"I know it's The Open and I certainly know what it means with 8 Open Victories to my family name."

Melvyn -

You make a statement like the one above and then you say you don't use your family heritage to enhance your status on this board? Can you possibly be serious?

DT

Yes he is serious.

8 Opens to his family name...none to his own.
H.P.S.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Winning Scores for The Opens of 1868/69 & 70
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2010, 08:02:40 AM »
Please stop feeding the troll.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

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