TOC is easy

[Richard Choi]

Quote from Michael Corcoran, author of "Duel in the Sun: Tom Watson and Jack Nicklaus in the Battle of Turnberry".

One thing no one likes to say but is so obviously true is that the Old Course is easy, too easy, unless there's gale force winds. ALL of the courses on the rota, save Carnoustie and Muirfield, are easy without wind, but in average weather--even with normal 20 mph winds for the setting--the Old Course, beloved as it is, is just a pitch and putt with deep bunkers and one hard hole. People get all caught up in the romance of it, and the town is the ultimate setting for the Open, but the course itself isn't even the best course in town. It was more mysterious and challenging before the big changes in equipment, but for modern players using modern gear, the course offers no more challenge than your local muni. Everyday players who get a chance to play it are blinded by their lifelong desire to play it, and for a hacker it's still a tough round. But a solid single-digit handicapper can easily go around there in the 70s even on the first try if there isn't major wind, and if they don't hyperventilate from all the romance. They'll never stop playing the Open there, but it's the least challenging venue used for any of the majors by far. It's like a Man o' War battling a nuclear aircraft carrier. The Man o' War has all the spooky legends and "hold fast" crap going for it, then gets sunk in five minutes by superior technology. It's true they all play the same course, even if the weather changes during the day, so it's still fair, but the Old is the only course in championship golf where a player can be several clicks off his game and not only compete, but perhaps even win. That's why this week is Tiger's best chance this year. Not because he's awesome or will overcome tremendous adversity etc., but because the Old, barring a hurricane, is easy. Like he likes his women.

Wow...

[Tom_Doak]

That reads like a story written backwards ... he had his ending and made up some other stuff to support it.

For starters, The Old Course is hardly the only course where a player can be off his game by several clicks and still compete.  Tiger has already proved this year that Augusta National and Pebble Beach are in the same class.  So I assume they, too, are easy and substandard.  I'd like to see Mr. Corcoran's list of other easy courses so I might enjoy them.

Also, the reason a solid single-digit handicapper can go around there in the 70s is because he will play the course from the boxes at about 6200 yards, and might see one or two of the hole locations they would ever use for an Open Championship.  It's just a completely different course the way it is set up this week.

[Bill_McBride]

That reads like a story written backwards ... he had his ending and made up some other stuff to support it.

For starters, The Old Course is hardly the only course where a player can be off his game by several clicks and still compete.  Tiger has already proved this year that Augusta National and Pebble Beach are in the same class.  So I assume they, too, are easy and substandard.  I'd like to see Mr. Corcoran's list of other easy courses so I might enjoy them.

Also, the reason a solid single-digit handicapper can go around there in the 70s is because he will play the course from the boxes at about 6200 yards, and might see one or two of the hole locations they would ever use for an Open Championship.  It's just a completely different course the way it is set up this week.

Like that pin on #2 from 200 yards?

[Phil McDade]

Tom:

The winning scores at the the last five Opens at TOC have been:

-- 2005 -- -19 (Tiger)
-- 2000 -- -14 (Tiger)
-- 1995 -- -6 (Daly)
-- 1990 -- -18 (Faldo)
-- 1984 -- -12 (Seve)

Three of the four lowest winning scores (relative to par) at the Open in its history have come at TOC, including the lowest ever. It's hard to conclude that, absent harsh conditions (as seen in 1995), that TOC isn't the easiest of the rota courses.

[Carl Johnson]

My view is that "par" is a totally artifical construct; not a reasonable basis to compare the relative difficulty of courses for championship play.  It's golfer v. golfer on a historic course that has been a measure, over a long time, of who is the Champion Golfer.  What's the matter with tradition?  If you win at TOC, you're the champ?  What's the matter with that?  The problem is in assuming it's golfer v. course.  For me, it's golfer v. golfer on the course.  We've got other "majors" that offer different tests, with different traditions.  Nothing the matter with that, either.  What I'd really like to see is impossible.  The guys go back and play it at Prestwick one year.  Or second place, try Dornoch.

[John Moore II]

That reads like a story written backwards ... he had his ending and made up some other stuff to support it.

For starters, The Old Course is hardly the only course where a player can be off his game by several clicks and still compete.  Tiger has already proved this year that Augusta National and Pebble Beach are in the same class.  So I assume they, too, are easy and substandard.  I'd like to see Mr. Corcoran's list of other easy courses so I might enjoy them.

Also, the reason a solid single-digit handicapper can go around there in the 70s is because he will play the course from the boxes at about 6200 yards, and might see one or two of the hole locations they would ever use for an Open Championship.  It's just a completely different course the way it is set up this week.

Tom, I agree with some of your points and disagree with some. Certainly, I think your first point is true. He just kind of built up the story about the Old Course when in reality it was completely about Tiger. Whatever, take your cheap shots while you can get them I guess.

As far as Pebble Beach goes, I said during the week of the tournament that I felt it was too short to host a US Open and without a silly set-up it would play to 25 under par, much like in the Crosby. Without the legacy of Tom Watson, Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods, (and the ocean setting) that course would be dumped from the rotation without haste.

[Tim Gavrich]

The cut at the "other" Tour event this week, the Reno-Tahoe Open at Montreux GC, was +3, while the cut at the Open was +2.  Can't imagine too many people would have expected that.

[John Moore II]

The cut at the "other" Tour event this week, the Reno-Tahoe Open at Montreux GC, was +3, while the cut at the Open was +2.  Can't imagine too many people would have expected that.

If the wind hadn't blown today, it would have been lower than that. And I think a fair number of people could have prediected that if the weather laid down.

[Jim Nugent]

A couple of other rota courses have yielded lower scores than TOC.  Including Turnberry (twice), that Corcoran wrote about in his book.  In fact, winning score at Turnberry the past four Opens is 273.5.  TOC's average is slightly higher, at 273.75.   

[Phil McDade]

A couple of other rota courses have yielded lower scores than TOC.  Including Turnberry (twice), that Corcoran wrote about in his book.  In fact, winning score at Turnberry the past four Opens is 273.5.  TOC's average is slightly higher, at 273.75.   

Turnberry plays at par 70 (280) for the Open; TOC at par 72 (288). A bit meaningless to compute average overall score -- relative to par, TOC plays nearly two strokes easier.

[Tom_Doak]

Phil:

You are making the same mistake that Carl Johnson astutely addressed earlier -- relating everything to par.

There are a lot of short par-4 holes at St. Andrews, which makes it "easy" in relation to par.  If that is the end of the discussion, I won't argue about that.

But you still have to play great shots on those holes in order to gain ground on the field.  Arguably, you have to play much more inventive and nuanced shots at St. Andrews than you do on any of the other Open venues.  And when you get in trouble at St. Andrews, you are in more trouble than on any other Open venue, too.

[Melvyn Morrow]

The Old Course is easy, to some that may well be true, to others it’s a course that has different faces each time you play her. In fact the faces can change between a mornings round and a second after lunch.

My problem is trying to understand let alone define the word ‘EASY’. I did not see an easy course yesterday, yet she has shown this face so many times in the past. If you know St Andrews you know the potential weather conditions that may suddenly arise and that is why for centuries she has not need more defensive traps as her partner is and has always been the weather.

So TOC is easy, then why was play stopped for just over an hour, perhaps it was just too difficult and the players were not willing to face the challenge by waiting it out. Perhaps the latest bunch of players have had it so easy that they do not understand links golf – which lets be honest has always been at the heart of the Game of Golf. It started on the Links and so should stay upon the Links.

Why was time out called, I fear it had nothing to do with the weather but the financial clout of the players about to start their second round. So at a stoke the R&A splits the field. Would some call that pampering certain players or simply looking after the interests of the important money spinning players to help sell the project. Ops sorry what am I thinking, I meant The Open.

When the weather goes from light wind to seaside winds the course has a chaperone, when that increases a notch or two she has her minders forcing the player to take her seriously or suffer the consequences. But then that not easy and the pampered prima donnas of the Pro world are shown up that their skill is not universal but limited to milder weather conditions. The shame is on the players and more so on the R&A for playing right into their hands.

A week or so ago I was leaving Moray Golf course early on a Sunday morning. I went for a last look over the First & 18th Tee around 7 AM, its was wet and windy and gusting well. Yet at that time two 4 balls were about to start. They walked using push trollies into the driving rain, both set of 4 and hearing them they set off in jovial mood. This is links golf at ordinary club level, no clever toys, no carts to make life easy, just man his clubs and liked minded golfers. Pity these golfers were not replacing the  ones playing at The Open yesterday.

As for The R&A, they need to get out to speak and see the commitment of the club game here in Scotland, then they might start to understand what golf is about.

Old Tom is dead, Young Tommy is dead, George & Jack Morris are dead, Charlie Hunter & the Hunters are dead, Willie Rusack is dead, Bobby Jones is dead yet the game lives on. The same will happen after Tom Watson, Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods. No one is bigger than the game, but then is the game today all about Golf or has money final taken priority thus becoming the core business for the R&A.

The Game must go on, to do so its needs to be keep in tune with its roots, it should be maintained as close to the original as possible to present a uniform front to all future generations. This needs firm understanding of what golf is all about, clearly I question this due to the simple fact that golf authorities have allowed NON Waling Golf Courses and outside distance enhancement aids.

TOC is easy, Christ guys we have made golf easy by not keep to the fundamentals.

Blink and see just how easy TOC is when playing with the right equipment in both good and bad weather days.

I LOVE TOC,  The 1st Tee, the 18th Tee, its bumps, pot bunkers double Greens and the way the weather dresses the course just about hourly. Nearly fifty years on and I do not find it easy but I love the challenge and the different ways she welcomes me back each time I stand on that 1st Tee.

Easy you wish, she is a beautiful old Lady, when the mood takes her she is just as challenging as any younger links course IMHO.


Melvyn      

[Doug Ralston]

For Melvyn;

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/devil_ball_golf/post/Tiger-Woods-shows-respect-as-Tom-Watson-finishes?urn=golf,256546

Doug

[Jim Nugent]

Phil, course rating doesn't take par into consideration.  Neither does bogey rating.  They are the two of the most-used ways to judge how hard a course is. 

Your point raises the question of what does "hard" mean?  Is a course with CR = 71 harder for scratch than a course whose CR is 70, if the first is par 72 and the second par 70? 

[George Pazin]

If TOC were simply too easy, we would see a Bob Hope style birdie fest every time any event was held there. You'd see the winner always being a nobody who shoots 25 under, burying numerous 45 footers that break nary an inch.

There is a world of difference in easy relative to par, and just plain easy.

[RSLivingston_III]

Well, the scoring wouldn't be as low if they didn't wus out on playing in a little wind. Poor cry baby pro's. I can change for different green speeds and those guys are supposed to be better than me in the skills department, at least thats what people people keep saying, that they have skills. I say make em show it.

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

I've never played in Scotland.  Can someone how has explain why if you hit it in the gorse you can go back on the same line it went in and drop it with a one shot penalty (like a water hazard)?

[RSLivingston_III]

I've never played in Scotland.  Can someone how has explain why if you hit it in the gorse you can go back on the same line it went in and drop it with a one shot penalty (like a water hazard)?

You might want to read the rules on an unplayable, which is more likely a lost ball. They can rarely be found let alone recovered.
I type too slowly to type it all out.

[Adam Clayman]

It sure is easy on the eyes at this very moment. The low light as Jimenez just finished and the humps and bumps are all exciting to watch.

[RSLivingston_III]

At least you can watch it, ABC here has put it on hold to show some welcome back (?) to somebody I have never heard of.

[Phil McDade]

Phil:

You are making the same mistake that Carl Johnson astutely addressed earlier -- relating everything to par.

There are a lot of short par-4 holes at St. Andrews, which makes it "easy" in relation to par.  If that is the end of the discussion, I won't argue about that.

But you still have to play great shots on those holes in order to gain ground on the field.  Arguably, you have to play much more inventive and nuanced shots at St. Andrews than you do on any of the other Open venues.  And when you get in trouble at St. Andrews, you are in more trouble than on any other Open venue, too.

Tom:

That all may be true -- but the original post was clearly meant to discuss TOC's difficulty relative to the other courses in the Open rota. It's hard to argue that winning scores there have been historically lower than on other courses, which suggest players get into trouble less often, or are able to extract themselves from trouble with greater ease than at other rota courses.

[Tom_Doak]

the Old Course, beloved as it is, is just a pitch and putt with deep bunkers and one hard hole.  [/i]

Phil:

Actually, that's the original quote.  Is that what you saw today?

[Phil McDade]

Tom:

Richard's tagline "Toc is easy," came straight from the first line of the essay quoted, which then put the remark in the context of other rota courses, with the line I focused on being: "They'll never stop playing the Open there, but it's the least challenging venue used for any of the majors by far."

Recent scores by winners of the Open suggest that's true; it's produced three of the four lowest winning scores (relative to par) in the Open's history.

Just to clarify, since I haven't, I think:

-- The Open ought to be played at TOC every 5-7 years;

-- It has some of the most interesting holes I've seen in major championship golf;

-- It has -- by far -- the most interesting land of any course I've seen in person (which, granted, isn't that many, compared to others on this board).

-- It nearly always produces, at the Open, a winner of considerable merit, i.e., a golfer who has had or goes on to have a distinguished career in golf. (I've long been of the view that part of the measure of the greatness of a course is the winners it produces in big tournaments. It's hard to argue with TOC's pedigree.)

I didn't see much of today's round. What I did see, in the early evening shadows and light, reiterated my thoughts on the land where TOC resides -- nothing looks better from over here.

[David Lott]

Of those who made the cut,

Only seven guys are six under or better.

Thirty six are even par or worse.

There is nothing "easy" about that, in terms of overall result, even though two men are scoring exceptionally well.

The fact that a course is susceptible to periodic low scores by outstanding golfers playing well does not make it "easy." It makes it interesting.

[Ulrich Mayring]

What is the definition of an "easy" course anyway?

Is it just about low scores? But then it would depend on an arbitrary par number. You can make #18 at TOC a par 3 and suddenly the entire field scores one shot worse. As Tom Doak said, many short par 4s on TOC. So "easy" can't be about scoring, really.

What about deviation instead? An easy course is one where a player's best round and his worst round are close together. Because that means the player is in full control, he can frequently play to his potential and thus always posts a similar score. For many players their home course is an easy course, because they know it inside-out and know exactly when to hit which shot to which position. They are playing precise percentages.

I believe if deviation is high, then that means the player is not in control and that means the course is hard. Also, deviation can be seen as the relation of the leading players' scores to those missing the cut badly. If a course manages to seperate a field very widely, then it surely must be hard.

Ulrich

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