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Jeff Fortson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTRAGE!
« on: March 08, 2002, 01:45:40 PM »
In Golf Digest this month there is a small article saying goodbye to the Desert Inn CC and hello to a new Fazio abortion.  This is AN OUTRAGE!!!  How many courses of the past are going to be either replaced or "re-designed" by these butchers named Fazio and Rees?  I am absolutely sick of it!People are lucky that I'm not a billionaire or there would be courses that you had to pass a verbal test before you could play them.  

Granted I haven't seen the new design of the Fazio course but history does repeat itself people.  I can remember playing the D.I. as a kid with my father since my grandparents retired in Vegas and I really enjoyed the course.  Even though it was flat and surrounded by encroaching developments it still had that "Vegas Charm" if you will.  I always felt that it was a true gamblers hangout and the course was setup in a true gambling style.  

Well, just another old treasure that has been plundered by people who care more about name dropping a golf architect on their scorecard than history and strategy.

Jeff F.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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#nowhitebelt

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2002, 02:09:30 PM »
Jeff,

Whoa.  The plan may have changed and I have not read the GD article, but I think you are wrong here.  Fazio is not changing the DI Course.  It is being destroyed and a hotel put in its place.  Fazio is going to build a new course in the desert (Where land is cheap - unlike the strip) and it will be the Desert Inn's course.  

When Steve Wynn sold Mirage corp., he was allowed to keep the Desert Inn.  He realized that the property that the DI golf course sits on is way to valuable as hotel space.  His plan was to build a hotel similar to Bellagio there.  Let us face it, we all have great memories of DI but it is not a great golf course.  Compared to what Wynn and Fazio did at Shadow Creek, DI may as well be hock acres.  I know that the budgets and situations are apples and oranges but the results speak for themselves.  If Wynn destroys the old DI and creates another Shadow Creek out in the desert, than I say that golfers are better off.

At any rate, the blame (Or to my way of thinking, credit) here goes to Steve Wynn not Fazio.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2002, 02:32:15 PM »
Come on David. Cut Jeff some slack.  He is a fairly new member of GCA and has apparently already figured out that the quickest way to fit in here is to take a few shots at Fazio. Who cares who acturally is to blame? If Fazio is even remotely connected, why not blame him? The problem is that Jeff's credibility takes a hit when he claims Desert Inn was an "old treasure". There are some courses that I would really hate to see destroyed and would lie down in front of the bull dozer to save. DI ain't one of them!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2002, 02:36:43 PM »
Jim:

DI wasn't worth laying in front of a bulldozer over, but it did
have a lot of history, and, at least, was an interesting course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

redanman

Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2002, 03:56:43 PM »
Nothing to do with my reputation as a Fazio lover, I always had a soft spot for that DI course and damn Fazio for taking it away.  (Actually I heard this quite some time ago).

Point of post:  I attended a national meeting one year when I was a resident and stayed in a strip motel (Not strip joint, dammit!) immediate north to the DI overlooking their pool and the golf course.  Got to play it that week, it was fun with what were the fastest and truest greens around (Probably 1980ish).  Walked and carried as I remember, probably no mo than a Doak 4, but high on memorability with the poolside cocktail waitresses.  High "walk-in-the-park"(GW) and memorability (GD)factors.  ;)  :P
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2002, 04:04:44 PM »
Bill, given your comment on a few of Archie's mounds are your sure the strip motel didn't have.... below it. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2002, 05:20:38 PM »
Jeff,

You should know that the DI was completely remodeled just a few years ago, and probably bore no resemblence to what most people remember about the course 20-30-40 years ago.

Perhaps one should compare the Fazio product to the product that existed immediately before he began his work,
prior to making any assessments or comparisons.

But, that's just my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2002, 10:57:42 AM »
Redanman,

Don't damn Fazio for taking it away.  It was already gone and Fazio wasn’t involved.  Wynn did some changes three years ago to buy him time until it was destroyed.

The new DI course will be nowhere near the old course.  It is a totally new project and Fazio won the contest to get it.  I imagine it wasn't much of a contest given the success the two had together the last time they collaborated.

Let us be realistic.  This was a brand new project.  Even if you were an architect who would never consider renovating an old course and always would favor restoration, you would be OK with this project.  

DI is being replaced with a Hotel not a renovation.  It is that simple.  Fazio was awarded the contract to build a new golf course.  The only thing the new course will have in common with the old is the name.  Fazio certainly does enough to anger members of the tree house.  In this case, he is innocent.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2002, 10:16:40 PM »
To give you an idea how much things have changed...
my only trip to Vegas was when I was 18.  Showboat was my favorite golf course.  I also played the Dunes (awful, cramped into a tight site), Tropicana (probably worse), and D.I. (which was also a great disappointment, since I knew the TOUR played there).

I don't think any are in existence today.  LVCC was probably the only course better then.  Everything in Vegas is pretty new.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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redanman

Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2002, 08:39:30 AM »
Dave
Quote
Redanman,

Don't damn Fazio for taking it away.   In this case, he is innocent.


My post was meant in a light-hearted vein only.  On all counts.  Honest.


And to John Conley

Showboat used to be my favorite, too.  Shos how long it's been since I've been there.  I really need to get to Vegas, It's a totally different place now I am sure.  I am not a gambler, so I will be safe there.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2002, 09:13:08 AM »
Can anyone confirm if Showboat NLE?  If so, what was its fate?  What did it become?

I liked the course!  Haven't heard a word about it since I played it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Bill Steele

Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2002, 01:40:33 PM »
John- Showboat is now known as Wildhorse. Originally, it was called Paradise Valley, then Showboat, then Indian Wells, then Royal Kinsfield before its current name.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2002, 06:28:16 PM »
Didn't read anyone's replies here as I'm just scaning the different posts but I'll say this, the Desert Inn won't be all that missed.  It wasn't all that impressive of a layout to begin with from my recollection of playing there years ago.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2002, 06:38:40 PM »
Bill:

Thanks!  I've always wondered.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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redanman

Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2002, 08:43:38 PM »

Quote
Bill:

Thanks!  I've always wondered.


About what?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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jg7236

Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2002, 04:03:00 PM »
Who was the original architect of Desert Inn?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeff_Fortson (Guest)

Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2002, 04:31:28 PM »
Since everyone that replied seems to be very sensitive about people taking shots at what you all seem to believe is the Messiah (Tom Fazio) I will just say that I read an article in Golf Digest that mentioned this and that is the only shred of knowledge I have on this whole ordeal.

By the way, who cares if it's Steve Winn or Jerry Lewis that is putting a hotel or another course on top of the DI and the golf course will be elsewhere.  The fact remains that a Tom Fazio course will be replacing the DI or a revamped DI either on the original site or somewhere else and that is enough for me to be disappointed.  

Everyone, take a deep breathe and get off my back unless your name is Tom Fazio or Steve Winn.  

GOOD RIDANCE!!!

Jeff F.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2002, 06:17:37 PM »
Jeff,

When was the last time you played the Desert Inn golf course?

A Fazio golf course is not replacing the Desert Inn golf course.
A hotel/casino is planned for this site.
The location of the land makes it too valueable for a golf course.  It's unfortunate because this was the last of the strip golf courses, and... it had a pretty good range as well.

Why do you oppose Fazio building another golf course for Steve Wynn in/around Las Vegas ?
It would appear, based on the rankings, and on the word of those who have played it, that Shadow Creek is a worthy golf course.  Do you not think him capable of building another worthy golf course in/around Las Vegas with Steve Wynn ?

What Fazio courses have you played ?
What do you find distasteful about them ?
Who would you prefer build a course for Steve Wynn ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2002, 06:25:48 PM »

jg7236,

I believe that Lawrence Hughes was the original architect.

Kinda of a cool course, an interesting combination of nature and man.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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SGD

Re: Desert Inn replaced by a Fazio course  AN OUTR
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2002, 08:09:49 PM »
FYI:

Tom Fazio was named architect for the 4th course at Lake Las Vegas Resort which will be called Rainbow Canyon, according to Golf Course News.  

So, he'll be building two in Vegas at the same time, the DI replacement and Rainbow Canyon.

What happened to Fazio's practice of limiting his project portfolio to building six to seven courses per year, with only one project in the West to maintain high quality?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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