Top 5 indicators of a quality golf facility

[Greg Tallman]

1. Fast greens - 12 or better
2. Lush green grass... everywhere
3. Unrelenting, long hard setup
4. 10-20 million dollar clubhouse
5. Comfort stations stocked with "goodies"
Honrable Mention/5A. - Waterfalls


Like it or not folks that is the typical golf consumer. Probably 80-90% of those that play golf judge whether or not a facility is a quality facility and worth the money.

Right or wrong, good or bad, Trump or Doak... It is what it is and it is not going to change.

[Michael Huber]

Is this a theory or conclusions drawn from some sort of survey?

[Greg Tallman]

Is this a theory or conclusions drawn from some sort of survey?

A couple of decades in the high end of the business, logic, the fact that the grill room does not sound like GCA... etc.

[Brian Joines]

Unfortunately, that sounds right in line with what a lot of the golfers I know are impressed by.

[Tom_Doak]

The comfort stations are the one that gets me teed off.  Charge them $300 a round and then give 'em free candy bars or gazpacho, and they are more impressed than if you charged them $50 less.  I don't think guys like that should be listened to about what's good in golf.

[Garland Bayley]

1. Fast greens - 12 or better
2. Lush green grass... everywhere
3. Unrelenting, long hard setup
4. 10-20 million dollar clubhouse
5. Comfort stations stocked with "goodies"
Honrable Mention/5A. - Waterfalls


Like it or not folks that is the typical golf consumer. Probably 80-90% of those that play golf judge whether or not a facility is a quality facility and worth the money.

Right or wrong, good or bad, Trump or Doak... It is what it is and it is not going to change.

What a bunch of made up nonsense.
 

[DMoriarty]

Over time, people will become less impressed with some of these things if the economy remains challenging.

Also, as much as people may rave about such things when they play such courses once or twice, I question whether those people will actually return to such courses on a regular basis.   For one thing, who can afford to?

[Greg Tallman]

The comfort stations are the one that gets me teed off.  Charge them $300 a round and then give 'em free candy bars or gazpacho, and they are more impressed than if you charged them $50 less.  I don't think guys like that should be listened to about what's good in golf.

Not much into the tequila, beer, 35 different flavors of water type thing myself. That said if I were to remove the "comlimentary tacos" at the turn it would cause a revolution.

Love it or hate it... it is real and something that must be considered or at least dealt with.

80-90% of the clientele in any business must be listened to. No way around it. 


Of course we are talking about the same crowd that complains for 20 minutes when recounting their first trip to Scotland/Ireland.

[Greg Tallman]

1. Fast greens - 12 or better
2. Lush green grass... everywhere
3. Unrelenting, long hard setup
4. 10-20 million dollar clubhouse
5. Comfort stations stocked with "goodies"
Honrable Mention/5A. - Waterfalls


Like it or not folks that is the typical golf consumer. Probably 80-90% of those that play golf judge whether or not a facility is a quality facility and worth the money.

Right or wrong, good or bad, Trump or Doak... It is what it is and it is not going to change.

What a bunch of made up nonsense.
 

Nonsense, perhpas. Made up? Most certainly not.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Discovery Land Company has followed that formula ,except for hard courses. However, I think any new developments from them may be awhile forthcoming.


http://www.discoverylandco.com/

[Melvyn Morrow]

Greg

Thanks for the info into your home club.

I would like to say

1. Fast greens - 12 or better          Make its easy again - why do they not have the putting skill on a Green
2. Lush green grass... everywhere  Why and what if you are colour blind – not really about golf is it
3. Unrelenting, long hard setup      Not certain I understand your point
4. 10-20 million dollar clubhouse     Right we are catering for the average golfer are we – I mean spoilt
5. Comfort stations stocked with "goodies"  It’s the Good life nothing to do with golf after all

Well it F#*king needs to change, its about golf not Gin Palaces full of cart riding toy playing individuals that believe the right hand was designed by God to hold all things electronic from remote controls to mobile phones. What is worse still is that many will probably drive Jaguars and enjoy a single Malt too. Sodden Hell it’s got to change, but then they would have to let in Anthony and his colour choice – perhaps we can put up with these places a little longer, hoping Anthony grows out of his Daly phase.

Hope springs eternal, well let’s hope for a little longer.

Melvyn

[Tom_Doak]

Not much into the tequila, beer, 35 different flavors of water type thing myself. That said if I were to remove the "comlimentary tacos" at the turn it would cause a revolution.

Love it or hate it... it is real and something that must be considered or at least dealt with.

80-90% of the clientele in any business must be listened to. No way around it.  

Greg:

I agree with most of what you're saying, with one caveat.  Those guys don't have to be 80-90% of the customers for EVERY golf course.  There is some room for a developer with a good idea to self-select his own customers, a la Bandon [which does some of the things you describe, but doesn't have carts, for one].  As long as they have a good enough golf course to attract a high enough percentage of the other 10-20% of customers who don't care about that other stuff, they're golden.  But you are right, that if you want to appeal to the masses, you've got to cater to them.

And also, as Melvyn says, in Scotland or Australia your list does not apply.

P.S.  If you gave up the fish tacos you'd be toast.

[Garland Bayley]

1. Fast greens - 12 or better
2. Lush green grass... everywhere
3. Unrelenting, long hard setup
4. 10-20 million dollar clubhouse
5. Comfort stations stocked with "goodies"
Honrable Mention/5A. - Waterfalls


Like it or not folks that is the typical golf consumer. Probably 80-90% of those that play golf judge whether or not a facility is a quality facility and worth the money.

Right or wrong, good or bad, Trump or Doak... It is what it is and it is not going to change.

What a bunch of made up nonsense.
 

Nonsense, perhpas. Made up? Most certainly not.

I didn't notice you posting a reference to your source.

[Greg Tallman]

Greg

Thanks for the info into your home club.

I would like to say

1. Fast greens - 12 or better          Make its easy again - why do they not have the putting skill on a Green
2. Lush green grass... everywhere  Why and what if you are colour blind – not really about golf is it
3. Unrelenting, long hard setup      Not certain I understand your point
4. 10-20 million dollar clubhouse     Right we are catering for the average golfer are we – I mean spoilt
5. Comfort stations stocked with "goodies"  It’s the Good life nothing to do with golf after all

Well it F#*king needs to change, its about golf not Gin Palaces full of cart riding toy playing individuals that believe the right hand was designed by God to hold all things electronic from remote controls to mobile phones. What is worse still is that many will probably drive Jaguars and enjoy a single Malt too. Sodden Hell it’s got to change, but then they would have to let in Anthony and his colour choice – perhaps we can put up with these places a little longer, hoping Anthony grows out of his Daly phase.

Hope springs eternal, well let’s hope for a little longer.

Melvyn

  Now that was entertainment!!

PLease don't confuse what I say with how I view it. And for the record I operate a rather high end resort that has dialed back some of "bells and whistles" over the years. My big delimma now is whether or not to place SkyCaddie handhelds on each cart. It will be a cold day in... well Cabo... when a TV monitor appears on one of our carts but SkyCaddie I can live with. I think.

At least there are not but a couple of Jaguars here in Cabo. Lots of Hummers though.... which is worse.

[Charlie Goerges]

Sodden Hell it’s got to change

I think I have a new sig!

[Greg Tallman]

[/quote]

I didn't notice you posting a reference to your source.

[/quote]

You might try Reply #2

[Greg Tallman]

Sodden Hell it’s got to change

I think I have a new sig!

That elicited more than a chuckle here as well.

[Peter Pallotta]

Greg -  I think it might be more accurate to say that what the typical golf consumer wants is what appears to be an unrelenting long, hard set-up.  Give us he-men 6500 yards (but please elevate 8 out of every 9 tee boxes....)

Peter

[Garland Bayley]

Is this a theory or conclusions drawn from some sort of survey?

A couple of decades in the high end of the business, logic, the fact that the grill room does not sound like GCA... etc.

Like I said a bunch of made up nonsense. You sit in a high end resort, listen to people there sound off, and come to the conclusion, "Like it or not folks that is the typical golf consumer. Probably 80-90% of those that play golf judge whether or not a facility is a quality facility and worth the money." Which suggests to me that you got a worse grade in English Comp 101 that I did (perish the thought).

This thread is complete balderdash. Peddle it somewhere else please.

[Greg Tallman]

Greg -  I think it might be more accurate to say that what the typical golf consumer wants is what appears to be an unrelenting long, hard set-up.  Give us he-men 6500 yards (but please elevate 8 out of every 9 tee boxes....)

Peter

I am with you Peter, my days of automatically going to the back tees is over.

It is just amazing that people will equate getting their brains beat out by a 7400 yard course with quality while looking down on a course based solely on yardage/distance... "How can a course be great if it is only 6,600?"

[Greg Tallman]

Is this a theory or conclusions drawn from some sort of survey?

A couple of decades in the high end of the business, logic, the fact that the grill room does not sound like GCA... etc.

Like I said a bunch of made up nonsense. You sit in a high end resort, listen to people there sound off, and come to the conclusion, "Like it or not folks that is the typical golf consumer. Probably 80-90% of those that play golf judge whether or not a facility is a quality facility and worth the money." Which suggests to me that you got a worse grade in English Comp 101 that I did (perish the thought).

This thread is complete balderdash. Peddle it somewhere else please.

You sir need to check yourself. For the record I grew up on one of the lowest end courses in as depressed an area as you care to imagine. Those folks use much the same formula to determine what is "great golf". The others you reference and obviously hold so much disdain for have taken it to a different level.

What is so hard to understand? Especially in this forumsn where the VAST MINORITY gather to discuss what is really at the heart of great golf which is the architecture and design characteristics of some of the great classics and modern wonders.

If my post is so "out there" just pop on over to your local muni and strike up a conversation about the great architectural wonders and subtle nuiances that make them special for you mustn't need GCA for that. 

[Richard Choi]

I think you are missing a major factor...

Hot cartgirls!!!

[Greg Tallman]

I think you are missing a major factor...

Hot cartgirls!!!

Well, If you are going to have cart girls...

[Mike Demetriou]

Greg,
I barely know anything about anything, but I have it on excellent authority that the Fish Tacos were awesome. I'm excited to try them. Oh, and I might bring my clubs.

I'm playing a fancy Doak track tomorrow - and I'm going to be furious if I don't get a Slurpee at hole #6, and a seared pork belly sammitch between 13 green and 14 tee.

[Greg Tallman]

P.S.  If you gave up the fish tacos you'd be toast.

[/quote]

Yep, my multiple attempts to do away with the free tacos (fish, beef and shrimp for the record) ranks right up there with repainting a clubhouse a different color only to find out the original color was hand picked by the owner's wife.  

[Tags:]

Tags: