[JESII]

I agree...and that's really the cycle I would hope to stop.

To further my point to Jeff about not criticizing modern architecture, this  most frequently reveals itself on the ODG courses...some of which are now being "restored".




Jeff,

Is it more of less of a challenge to hit that same six iron with a pond guarding the green as opposed to a fairway chipping area?

[Sean_A]

Tom

Indeed, why should every course have the same goal? 

George

No, you name your terms.  I suspect it doesn't matter.

Pietro

To be honest, I am generally not enthusiastic about the examination of the game provided by those Tilly and Flynn monsters of the 20s.  These are difficult courses today and I fear their difficulty may shroud any thoughts of what I believe is the thorough examination of the game (assuming I ever gigure out what that is).  However, I think the designers for some of these courses achieved their goal in creating more champiomship level courses than existed previously.

Adam

Yes, golf should do more than test, but getting the balance right is what remains the problem for archies seeking to market the concepts of challenge, championship and difficulty.  Yes, I do believe there is a subtle difference between difficulty and challenge.

Bob

Couldn't one say that the dub avoiding the difficult and sometimes impossible shot IS meeting his challenge?  They say much of golf should be played between the ears.

Jim

It isn't difficulty which brings me back to the first tee.  Perhaps I am an outlier in this thought, but I want difficulty to be a by product of my bad shots and bad decisions.  If I stand on the tee more than a few times in a game and think there is not a hope in hell of me pulling off a good shot, then the balance of difficulty, challenge, fun and yes, ease of the game, is out of cink.  I think your example of the 6 iron is more about difficulty.  A challenge is whatever we deem it to be.  Difficulty is more akin to trying to meet someone else's standard such as par.  That isn't to say that there isn't a degree of difficulty in a challenge, but difficulty shouldn't be the entire challenge.  In other words, difficulty should ideally be a subset of challenge.

Jeff

What is your idea of the total examination of the game?   

All

I think we need to think in terms of 18 holes to provide what it is we need or want from a course.  No one hole can be ideal in and of itself because only certain challenges can be set and met for each hole.   

Ciao


   

[Carl Rogers]

The National Golf Foundation ...
I know it collects statistics about the demographics & playing habits of the golfing public at large.  Not those of us who frequent this site.
Is it true that about as many people give up the game each year than start to play the game? and yet the over all population is going up...If fun were more part of the game, would the game be increasingly more popular keeping up with population growth?

As an aside thought, I do think that it is no accident that the game started in Scotland .. John Calvin & the Presbyterian Church, a severely strict pious group in the beginning.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Carl,

You probably got that right. And I have always said that golf does and should reflect life.  Since life is physically easier, its no secret that golfers take it easier.  And without potato famines, etc., life is less taxing than it was, and its no surprise to me that golf has generally been made easier as a result.

Sean,

I look at an examination of golf in terms of variety of shots played, to different pins, in differen twinds, shot patterns, etc.  Even greens should be flat, medium and contoured on a single course.  Hazards should be a mix of sand, chipping, etc.  Over time, a repeat golfer will experience the widest range of shots possible, but not all in one day.

[George Pazin]

It's the overcoming of a challenge that gets people hooked on golf!

This reminds me of a discussion I had long ago with a decent golfer. He was praising some new driver for allowing him to hit it straight and long and I asked him, would you want a driver that guaranteed you 300 yards right down the middle every time? He said, sure, that would be awesome. I then asked, where's the fun in that?

I could be wrong, but I think Melvyn's original post touched on this point as well. I think he meant that golf grew in popularity during times it was rather more difficult, due to the limitations of equipment, and golf would continue to grow if we just let it, rather than trying to manage it through things like making courses more "fair".

[Sean_A]

Over time, a repeat golfer will experience the widest range of shots possible, but not all in one day.

Jeff

Where have you been hiding all this time?  Likely hanging around the rink peeping the Ice Girls.  Your sentence above is exactly how I feel, especially when it comes to hazards.  It may take three or four or more plays for all the hazards (including humps n hollows) to effectively come into play - if they are well placed.  Same should be true of hole locations and tee boxes (if the grounds staff is on the ball).  But as usual, this sort of thinking takes one big factor - width from and including the tee to the green site.  Otherwise its mostly just lip service. 

Ciao

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