[Roger Wolfe]

Arcadia is unique in that it comps no one...if you play at 2 or later, you pay $100, well worth the $$$.

Arcadia is wonderful and their GM, Bill Shriver is a class act.  Played three glorious rounds there
in mid May with the course to ourselves.  The Crystal Downs AM round followed by the twilight, sunset
Arcadia PM round was pretty much as good as gets.

Cannot wait to go back.

[Ronald Montesano]

Dean, that's an excellent point and one that we found at a recently opened course in our nape of the woods.  The hazard is minimized and the grass eye candy and more difficult from which to recover) is maximized.  I suggested to one fellow that he take an unplayable; he was within driver's length of the fairway!  He poo-poohed the idea (I don't think he understood the unplayable penalty), took four hacks to get it out, one more to get it on, then three putted.8 strokes when 3 or 4 at most would have done.

[Carl Nichols]

This seems like a good example of a course where the designers didn't care much about hiding the grassing lines (or as much as Tom Doak). 

[Mac Plumart]

Educate me...

grassing lines.  I've heard this twice in a week.  Are you talking the transition from fairway, to fringe, to green?  Are you talking transition from fairway to bunker?  Are you talking fairway to rough?  Or something completely different?

And why is this aspect of a course important?  Is it naturalness?

Thanks in advance.

[Michael Dugger]

Tom has mentioned a time or two that they didn't get everything quite right with Arcadia.

I have a few friends that have played the course and they all say it's spectacular.  The setting is certainly second to none.

From the outside looking in, I get hung up on the routing.  Considering they could have gone anywhere (and I could be wrong with this assumption) I don't quite get some of the holes.  Seems like a poor use of land.

It also looks to be quite penal and unplayable in certain areas.  To me this is a deduction in points.

All that said.....a few of those views just beckon for a game of golf.  I sure wouldn't kick her outta bed for eatin' crackers...  

[JC Jones]

This seems like a good example of a course where the designers didn't care much about hiding the grassing lines (or as much as Tom Doak). 

The water sure looks pretty though...

[Carl Nichols]

Educate me...

grassing lines.  I've heard this twice in a week.  Are you talking the transition from fairway, to fringe, to green?  Are you talking transition from fairway to bunker?  Are you talking fairway to rough?  Or something completely different?

And why is this aspect of a course important?  Is it naturalness?

Thanks in advance.

Mac:
As I understand it from the Mayacama thread, it's trying to make the transitions from mowed, irrigated turf to native look seamless so they don't attract attention (and I presume, don't look completely unnatural).  Arcadia looks really fun to me, but the lines between the two are very apparent.

[Eric Smith]

Tom has mentioned a time or two that they didn't get everything quite right with Arcadia.

I have a few friends that have played the course and they all say it's spectacular.  The setting is certainly second to none.

From the outside looking in, I get hung up on the routing.  Considering they could have gone anywhere (and I could be wrong with this assumption) I don't quite get some of the holes.  Seems like a poor use of land.

It also looks to be quite penal and unplayable in certain areas.  To me this is a deduction in points.

All that said.....a few of those views just beckon for a game of golf.  I sure wouldn't kick her outta bed for eatin' crackers...  

After my one play there I don't know if I was let down as much as confused as to what great golf is supposed to be, if that makes any sense...Even now, three years later I still don't know how I would categorize the golf course, and maybe you don't try to do that.  I do know that it was my third favorite (out of three played) on that trip, but it was more than just, eh...

I'd definitely recommend a visit if you are up in the mitten.  It's a quality experience.  I think we paid $100 in August, having the first twilight tee time that day.

I think it is more than just pretty water views, JC of the Jones!!

And the golf course can be (and was) tough if you're spraying it:


Very, very beautiful place.

[Mac Plumart]

Thanks Carl.

I think I learn something on this site every day.

[Roger Wolfe]

Educate me...

grassing lines.  I've heard this twice in a week.  Are you talking the transition from fairway, to fringe, to green?  Are you talking transition from fairway to bunker?  Are you talking fairway to rough?  Or something completely different?

And why is this aspect of a course important?  Is it naturalness?

Thanks in advance.

Mac:
As I understand it from the Mayacama thread, it's trying to make the transitions from mowed, irrigated turf to native look seamless so they don't attract attention (and I presume, don't look completely unnatural).  Arcadia looks really fun to me, but the lines between the two are very apparent.

We call it "definition" and although it sometimes looks unnatural... I love it.  Brown fescue next to tightly mown bermudagrass is a wonderful thing.

[Tony Weiler]

Educate me...

grassing lines.  I've heard this twice in a week.  Are you talking the transition from fairway, to fringe, to green?  Are you talking transition from fairway to bunker?  Are you talking fairway to rough?  Or something completely different?

And why is this aspect of a course important?  Is it naturalness?

Thanks in advance.

I like that, too.  Tell me how you do this in all different climates?  I mean, there are certain courses where it would just be completely brown if not watered?  This is intereting to me, as I really don't mind the green/brown look. 
Mac:
As I understand it from the Mayacama thread, it's trying to make the transitions from mowed, irrigated turf to native look seamless so they don't attract attention (and I presume, don't look completely unnatural).  Arcadia looks really fun to me, but the lines between the two are very apparent.

We call it "definition" and although it sometimes looks unnatural... I love it.  Brown fescue next to tightly mown bermudagrass is a wonderful thing.

[Mike Cirba]

George,

Thanks for the reallly superb pictorial.

I had very mixed feelings about Arcadia, and loved so many of the features that I think some of the overcooked stuff stuck out even more.   Some holes like the 11th just didn't play very well, even though they look terrific, and other holes that had a more sedate look like the 3rd were just mind-blowingly superb.

I certainly would recommend a visit, even at the premium prices, yet left feeling slightly let down that it wasn't a more consistent challenge or presentation.

[BHoover]

So this is the course the lemmings want to play? I guess I must be a lemming because I'd like to check out Arcadia at some point.

[Jon Cavalier]

I played AB during a Michigan public loop last summer (AB, Forest Dunes, Bay Harbor, Greywalls and a few others). I thought AB made for an excellent day of golf - the setting is gorgeous, the faux-links aspect and sod bunkers are well executed, and the holes are fun to play. I liked the greens a lot - yes, they're wild, but I thought that made them quite fun. They actually reminded me a lot of Tom Doak's greens at Stonewall's udder course.  I think most people would leave this course after a round pretty happy and satisfied. 

[Jud_T]

Jon,

Most people drink lite beer and over-oaked Chardonnay.  Most people like Coldplay.  Most people don't like fois gras, sea urchin or scotch bonnet peppers.  We are not most people....

[Jon Cavalier]

Jud:

Fair enough, but I'll clarify - I think most of us would walk away from a round at AB happy and satisfied (assuming the sea urchin sandwich at the turn was up to par).

[Mark Saltzman]

Jud:

Fair enough, but I'll clarify - I think most of us would walk away from a round at AB happy and satisfied (assuming the sea urchin sandwich at the turn was up to par).

I certainly did (though no sea urchin involved).  I loved Kingsley.  I really enjoyed Arcadia Bluffs.  If back in the area, I'd like to play both again.

[Jud_T]

Jon,

I walked away happy and satisfied at AB back in the day.  Then I learned something about GCA and the value of a dollar.  Advising people to spend a fistful of hard earned cash to play mediocre golf with nice views is irresponsible IMO.  Sleeping Bear Dunes is up the road and free.  Michigan has a ton of really good to great golf that is better than AB, and better value.  

P.S.  Saltzman, you didn't get Crystal Downs either.  Your opinion is suspect...

[Terry Lavin]

I might play Arcadia, but I'd rather eat my dog's paw than play Bay Harbor.

[Jon Cavalier]

I advise no one to do anything. I offer my opinion, nothing more.

That said, having now read the entirety of the thread, it seems that my original opinion was correct.

[BHoover]

Jon,

Most people drink lite beer and over-oaked Chardonnay.  Most people like Coldplay.  Most people don't like fois gras, sea urchin or scotch bonnet peppers.  We are not most people....

For the reason I brought this up, please see the most overrated hole thread and a certain comment about lemmings and their proclivities.

The only thing worse, IMO, than golf course snobs are music snobs...actually art snobs because, really, who gives a damn about art? I also don't trust anyone who doesn't think Fletch is possibly the greatest comedy ever.

[Jud_T]

I stand corrected...  Sleeping Bear Dunes costs $10/vehicle.

[Jud_T]

Brian,

If golf course snobs piss you off may I suggest you are perhaps wasting valuable time on the wrong site?  And if you like Coldplay, well, all I can say is we're not listening to your iPod on the way to the next outing.  You'll be carpooling with Tim Bert...

[BHoover]

Brian,

If golf course snobs piss you off may I suggest you are perhaps wasting valuable time on the wrong site?  And if you like Coldplay, well, all I can say is we're not listening to your iPod on the way to the next outing.  You'll be carpooling with Tim Bert...

If one is a golf course snob, it doesn't really bother me because it doesn't affect where I play golf. I just don't see why we deride folks for wanting to play a particular course. At the end of the day, how does it affect us if the general public wants to play places like Arcadia? Practically speaking, it means that the places we tend to prefer remain hidden gems. And who doesn't have fun with a guilty pleasure every once in a while? I played a mid 90s cart golf style of course today, yet I still had a blast (even with my walking bag strapped on the cart).

As for music, I guess I better keep my iPod to myself. It has lots of Pink Floyd and Radiohead and Phil Collins.

[Jason Thurman]

To Jud's credit, he has at least played the course he so vocally criticizes. This in contrast to the guy who made the lemming comment.

As for judging the taste of the Arcadia haters, they're in full agreement with a guy who also believes Pebble has poorly designed greens and that the sixth at Pebble is a poor hole. Judge their credibility as you see fit.

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