[BHoover]

To Jud's credit, he has at least played the course he so vocally criticizes. This in contrast to the guy who made the lemming comment.

Fair enough. That was my reaction too.

[Bill_McBride]

I'm one who loves Pebble (although hasn't played it since 1978) but was underwhelmed by Arcadian Bluffs.  There were some good holes, but I thought the routing was a dog's porridge  and there were perhaps a thousand totally extraneous mounds.   Whoever routed the course missed many opportunities.  Don't ask me for specifics, it's been too long.  To me it's not a course that stays up front in your memory.  I thought the first six or eight holes were the best, the rest kind of slipped away.....

[Buck Wolter]

I like Arcadia very much -- prior to joinng Kingsley I played the majority of my Michigan golf there. My in-laws cottage is basically equi-distant so it was a very realistic alternative. Do I like it as much as TKC? No, obviously but I still think it is a very unique experience and one that holds up from an architectural point of view. Do I wish they had given Tom Doak the opportunity? Yes (with Mike D) but I don't think that's a reason not to play it. I've walked Whising Straits which I think is the best direct comparison and I'd play at Arcadia first even if it wasn't half the cost. I think the things we appreciate on this site are mostly present, options off the tee, firm fast conditions and interesting/borderline wild greens. Not very walkable and some contrasting styles but I think that's picking nits.

Brian- Let's figure out a time to do the double-- I'm overdue to get back to Arcadia.

Buck

[Neil Johnston]

A few folks in this thread and others I have seen have brought up the value of Arcadia. At $180 for full fare, it is certainly not cheap, especially given its somewhat isolated location.

I have played the course a lot at $100 and felt I got my money's worth.  $180 is really pushing it after multiple plays there. But I wonder what the magic $ is where Arcadia's critics stop mentioning its greens fee as a major detriment.

[BCowan]

To Jud's credit, he has at least played the course he so vocally criticizes. This in contrast to the guy who made the lemming comment.

As for judging the taste of the Arcadia haters, they're in full agreement with a guy who also believes Pebble has poorly designed greens and that the sixth at Pebble is a poor hole. Judge their credibility as you see fit.

   I actually was paraphrasing Jud, for he called people who line up to play Arcadia Lemmings in the past.  I am wise enough to avoid tourist traps.  Jason, did you bother to respond to John P response in regards to the 6th hole?  I said the green complexes aren't big enough.  Being that i probably differ in arch views than you, I'll take that as a compliment.  

[Jud_T]

Neil,

FYI- I'd play Belvedere or The Mines over Arcadia irrespective of price.  I'd sooner play poker at the dog track casino down the road most days, but I don't soil my shorts over lake views like most retail golfers.  I suppose relative to Whistling Straights, Bandon Dunes (the course), Torrey at full whack, Tralee or Old Head that AB actually represents good value for the well heeled travelling "water views magically turn a 5 into a 7" crowd.

P. S.  The 6th at PB is a fantastic hole...

[Andrew Lewis]

FYI- I'd play Belvedere or The Mines over Arcadia irrespective of price.

I haven't played Belvedere so won't comment on that.  But I'd ask the basis of your preference of the Mines over Arcadia -- is it the architecture, or is it that the Mines is more suited to your game?  If the latter, I have no issue with playability as a driver of preference, but I question when personal preference is confused with the a priori "goodness" of a course's design.

I have played Arcadia a dozen or so times and think that it is a very good course.  In that area, Crystal Downs and Kingsley (disclaimer:  I am a member) are clearly better.  But Arcadia offers some interesting holes (8 and 12 are two I particularly like) and presents a number of things the hypothetical Ideal GCA'er is supposed to like but, in the case of Arcadia, are quickly dismissed due to the fact that it has a nice veranda and is swarmed by "retail golfers."  I also find some of the criticisms frequently levied puzzling and/or a bit unfair.

For example:

Firm/fast playing conditions -- In my dozen or so plays, Arcadia has been exceptionally firm and fast, which is something I thought GCA'ers liked.

Bold greens -- Massive contours that cause the player to think about approach shots, recoveries and putts?  Check.  I find the recurring criticism that the greens are too bold comical, especially given the praise we collectively bestow on places like Yale.

Mounding / manufactured feel -- Yes, it can feel a bit goofy to play through valleys of tall dunes on flatt-ish fairways.  But don't a number of courses in GB&I follow similar approaches?  And does anybody really think that the Mac-Raynors don't feel "manufactured"?

Walkability / routing -- It isn't the easiest terrain and there are some hefty distances from green to tee in a few places, but it is very doable, especially with a caddie -- and don't GCA'ers support caddie programs?  I'd put it on par with Whistling Straits and Erin Hills in terms of both terrain and distance.

The setting -- Many people will comment on the view and pleasantries of drinks on the porch before discussing the course.  But so what?

For those who haven't played it, I would always recommend a round.  Sure, you might not like it.  But that can the true with any new course and, in this case, at least you'll be able to articulate a reason for said dislike other than the fact that a guy who disses Coldplay and thus must have finely tuned sensibilities  says so.

[John Percival]

Love AB, but only w/ the right people, as the wild player can create a day of searches in the fescue. Interestingly, as a difficult track, it may be one of golf's most playable from the forwards, as there are few forced carries.
Surprised, though, after all the comments, that no one has mentioned those damn short pins. HATE EM! On full shots they aren't too bad, as u whack something more akin to distance, not appearance. But half shots and recoveries feel odd with the 4 or 5 foot poles.

[Nigel Islam]

Those flags are awful, but I liked the course. I think Golf Week has it in about the right place.

[J.D. Griffith]

I have not played Arcadia Bluffs, but just looking at the excellent pictures, the sense of scale seems all out of proportion.  The mounding is way overdone, as well as the bunkering in my humble opinion. 
I look forward to playing it in the future and seeing the physical scale of the site.  Have heard very positive comments in regards to the clubhouse, and attentive staff from co-workers that have played it. 

[Thomas Dai]

Forgive me, I am not familiar with this course but purely from looking at the photos - and very nice they are too - there seems to be a lot of sandy terrain so is the site pretty much as is was before work commenced or was lots of earth moved with big machines etc to create the course?

I'm intrigued as I can't help but wonder what kind of course James Braid would have come up with at a location such as this given what the likes of Perranporth and Pennard are like.

Just curious.

atb

[Bill_McBride]

Forgive me, I am not familiar with this course but purely from looking at the photos - and very nice they are too - there seems to be a lot of sandy terrain so is the site pretty much as is was before work commenced or was lots of earth moved with big machines etc to create the course?

I'm intrigued as I can't help but wonder what kind of course James Braid would have come up with at a location such as this given what the likes of Perranporth and Pennard are like.

Just curious.

atb

See J.D.'s post above.  There is no hint of minimalism at Arcadian Bluffs.   

[Jud_T]

Andrew,

Simple-  much better use of the site.  Routing, naturalness, tie-ins etc.  More importantly, get your butt up to the Hickory event at Belvedere!!

[Bill Seitz]

I've only played it once, but I'd say its worth a visit for the scenery. Fairly easy when the wind is down. Lends itself to really long rounds though, from both what I've heard and experienced. I don't recall the native being too difficult either in terms of finding balls or playing them, but that's based on only one play. The views along the lake are spectacular.

[Paul Gray]

I know not of the course but, let me guess, tourists love to play it and tell their friends they played links golf?

[Nigel Islam]

I know not of the course but, let me guess, tourists love to play it and tell their friends they played links golf?

It is NOT links golf for sure. The whole place seems soft and sodded. There are too many gratuitous bunkers, and the flagsticks are strange. It has some architectural merit though. I think you really have to play it before you rag on the place. Several of the holes are quite good.  It is actually pretty cool. One of the things I loved about the place was that you can see the entire course. I really did not think I would like it that much, but I wound up thinking it was a very nice course. Is it top 50 in the country? No. Is it top 200? Yes. I dropped $110 and I felt like it was a good deal.

[Mark Pritchett]

I visited Arcadia Bluffs in the summer of 2011.  The course played as fast and firm as CD, Kingsley, and Forest Dunes.  Hope it is still that way. 

[Tim_Weiman]

Played Arcadia twice. Didn't come away overly impressed, but I do find the 18th hole fun and challenging to play. Like the uphill approach shot.

Feels like the place should work well with most of the golfing public, though not so much with well traveled golf architecture junkies.

[Ken Fry]

Love AB, but only w/ the right people, as the wild player can create a day of searches in the fescue. Interestingly, as a difficult track, it may be one of golf's most playable from the forwards, as there are few forced carries.
Surprised, though, after all the comments, that no one has mentioned those damn short pins. HATE EM! On full shots they aren't too bad, as u whack something more akin to distance, not appearance. But half shots and recoveries feel odd with the 4 or 5 foot poles.

The height of the flags has been dictated as much by the power of the wind coming off the lake as an aesthetic.  There are a number of days a standard length flag stick would be snapped in half.

Ken

[Matthew Lloyd]

Have only played Arcadia once, in late October 2007. It was pouring rain, 45 degrees and the wind was at least 20mph, possibly much higher. And I was deathly ill for the week following the round. Though it actually was a lot of fun to play along the lake in those conditions, these pictures really make me want to go back during the summer/early fall with better weather. I'll try to upload my pictures from 2007 (if I can find them) later this week.

[Ken Fry]

I agree with Buck on this.

I have approximately 15 rounds on Arcadia Bluffs.  It's not at all a "bad" course.  There are things that can be nit picked about because that's what we do but overall the golf course is fun and the views spectacular.

Is the mounding a little overly done?  Probably.  Are the bunker styles all over the map?  Yes.  As Buck mentioned, the only direct comparison I can think of is Whistling Straits.  I'd take Arcadia Bluffs.  When you factor in the price difference, it's a no brainer to me.  As weak as a few of the holes at Arcadia are, there are far more that offer interesting strategy and playability.  Whistling Straits has two of the worst holes I've ever seen on a "world class" golf course;  holes #5 and #18.  As much as I don't think much of #18 on Arcadia Bluffs, nothing on the course is as bad as #5 and #18 on Straits.

Ken

[Jud_T]

When you factor in the price difference, it's a no brainer to me.

Agreed.  2 rounds at Belvedere with enough for beers at Short's left over...  Arcadia's a fine course, it's just somewhat overrated IMO and priced accordingly.  Digest has it above Olympia Fields, Plainfield, Old Sandwich, Quaker Ridge, Bandon Trails, Boston Golf Club, Winged Foot East, Ballyneal, Aronimink, Kittansett, Somerset Hills, Kapalua and Maidstone.  Perhaps a TAD aggressive.  Maybe something to do with this?:

5. Aesthetics
How well do the scenic values of the course (including landscaping, vegetation, water features and backdrops) add to the pleasure of a round?

It's quite simple.  If on the Nuzzo scale of Pretty, Fun or Challenging you skew Pretty, then this place needs to be near the top of your bucket list.  If not, then perhaps you'll find better value elsewhere.

[BCowan]

''2 rounds at Belvedere with enough for beers at Short's left over...''
  
   I'll be attempting that in 5 weeks!!!  Beards Brewery in Petoskey is much closer and pretty good too!  

Jud,

   It amazes me that you haven't been to the Great Right Brain Brewery in Traverse City! 

[Buck Wolter]

I went to the website just to see what the current numbering is and found this 'ezine'

http://issuu.com/arcadiabluffs/docs/arcadiabluffs?mode=embed&viewMode=presentation&layout=http%3A%2F%2Fskin.issuu.com%2Fv%2Fdark%2Flayout.xml

Some pretty amazing photos and some interesting quotes from the Archie, Warren Henderson (Rick Smith was given co-design credit for a # of years but I think he's been scrubbed). I had thought the place was basically all man-made but Warren's quotes indicate that there was quite a bit already there "You can always build a green, we wanted to find them"  .  There was good back and forth between Warren and Tom Doak a few years ago on this site about AB.

I went through the hole by hole and can't come up with any that I dislike. Ken we must both have great taste as 18 is about the only so-so hole.


Buck

[Mark Saltzman]

A few years ago I wrote a fairly complimentary review of Arcadia.  It was one the first reviews I ever posted, but I still think it was reasonable well done... http://onegolferstravels.blogspot.ca/2012/01/arcadia-bluffs-golf-club-review.html

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