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Matt Bosela

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #250 on: July 29, 2010, 03:13:04 PM »

13th Hole - 216 Yards Par 3

This hole is a brute from the tips, as it plays from one dune to another perched up high above a lower fairway.  There is a significant false front here and mishit shots can roll off the front of the green even if they are hit 20 feet on.  More worrisome is the treacherous bunker short right that sits about 15 or 20 feet below the green and certainly bogey becomes an attractive score if the tee shot ends up there.

The green also falls off considerably in the back and features a large, short grass chipping area.  This crowned putting surface is exceedingly difficult to hold for all but the best players from the back tees, although I may only be saying that because I didn't hit the green once in six tries despite using at least four different clubs during my time at SH.  The hole must play easier from the other decks but I'm hoping that someone like Gene, Tom or Adam can tell me how to properly hold this green from the back deck - it's the one hole I really couldn't figure out during our stay.

That said, perhaps I should have just been happy with my ball rolling off the front edge and trying to get up and down for my par instead of stubbornly trying to get the ball on the putting surface!

13th Tee


View from path that crosses the hole at foot of fairway


View of deep bunker in right front of green - notice the significant slope


View from Back Left of Green


View of the chipping area in the back of the Green - again, notice the dropoff
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 04:18:31 PM by Matt Bosela »

Tom Huckaby

Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #251 on: July 29, 2010, 03:37:09 PM »
Matt:

As with everything at a windy course like this, it all turns on the wind.  When that hole plays downwind, I'm not sure there is a way to hit and hold the green from the tips or any other tee for that matter.  But that's when the thoughtful golfer plays it like you said... smash one into the hill and hop for the proper hop.. that can be done...or just allow it to roll back down and play it for a four.

In side and headwinds, I have hit and held the green from the tips - at least once into the wind and once with a left to right - they were two damn good shots I must say.

So it can be done.. I am not that good.

To me, this is a fantastic golf hole just for what it is - pretty darn unique.  It is very very tough.  But heck, so is 16 Cypress, 10 Winged Foot West, other great holes of this heroic genre.

I put it with these among the world's great heroic, tough par threes.

Brad Swanson

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #252 on: July 29, 2010, 04:42:16 PM »
The lone day I was blessed to spend at Sand Hills (the final day of the season October 2003), the wind was whipping, and it was helping from left to right on 13.  I don't think there was a chance to hit this green unless you managed to hit a low running hard draw up the slope.  It is a brute, and I love it and put it amongst my favorite heroic par 3s (right there with #11 at Shinnecock).

Brad

Keith OHalloran

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #253 on: July 29, 2010, 08:39:07 PM »
I hate to get ahead of myself, but I am giddy that the 14th is next. It is one of, if not the, best par 5 I have ever played. I am expecting that you have some photos that I will ask for.

Ben Voelker

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #254 on: July 30, 2010, 05:17:06 AM »
The lone day I was blessed to spend at Sand Hills (the final day of the season October 2003), the wind was whipping, and it was helping from left to right on 13.  I don't think there was a chance to hit this green unless you managed to hit a low running hard draw up the slope.  It is a brute, and I love it and put it amongst my favorite heroic par 3s (right there with #11 at Shinnecock).

Brad

There is another thread going around regarding Tobiano and, in particular, a lot of criticism for number 7, a long par 3 with a green that is impossible to hold given certain wind conditions.

Many of the comments made here seem to be similar about 13, only in a positive light.  I assume this is due to a number of things, including
  • you are not dead if you miss this green (but assured of a 4!)
  • the front tees are far more manageable

I am curious to see these two holes compared and contrasted.  I know they are not the same hole, I just noticed the similar words used for both of them :)

I did play 2 rounds at Sand Hills back in 2004 and did enjoy 13, but remember it playing more like 175 from the middle tees.

Tom Huckaby

Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #255 on: July 30, 2010, 09:17:04 AM »
Ben - it is about 180 from the middle tees as I recall.  That's still a tough shot up the hill, but not impossible.

As for your thoughts....

 - you are pretty dead if you miss the green far right or far left; you're far more likely to make 5 or worse than 4 from there.  But short is OK, as is long... closer left and closer right are two pretty nasty bunkers, which are not DEATH but not nice places... 4 is a good score from either of those places.  I guess the "positive" takes on this do come from the miss short and long being OK, as well as the fact that those who have posted just like the fact that this is such a killer, heroic golf hole.

 - The front tees are indeed quite more manageable.  The shot from 216 is the real killer.


RJ_Daley

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #256 on: July 30, 2010, 11:02:29 AM »
Gene's paean above describes his moment of realization of just how special being among the Sand Hills can be.   In fact, I think that many people would have that overwhelming feeling of a moment of realization of your place in the universe in that environment even if you were not playing golf.  The fact that people in this discussion group are golfers, and have an activity perfectly suited for the situation they find themselves in when getting alone among such land forms, is frosting on the cake.  If you were riding a horse out on that land, you'd have to dismount and pick a place to have your moment of zen.  If you were bird hunting, same thing. It is the vastness of the endless land mass and poetry that it plays out in a dance between the cloud shadows and the land shadows, that is the perfect description of the word, 'allure'.  If you go out there, you are going to have your moment, as Larry the Cable guy says, "I don't care who you are, that is alluring right there".

The best description I've read why we as golfers have these moments, and it is so overwhelming when we are out on a piece of land like this is described by John Strawn in his book "Driving the Green" near the end where he goes into a little commentary of how we descended from hunter-gatherers, mainly in a Savannah environment where game is rich on the grasslands.  The hunt across these grounds, and the idea of impliment like bow and arrow, or anything that involves the activity of aim oriented targeting of prey, is in our DNA.  So, we hunt the little white ball.  We are like cats stalking a mezmerizing object in the tall grass.  We can't help ourselves. 

It is just like serendipity that these forces of game and allure to a mystical and ancient resident memory of land in our minds came together in the Sand Hills.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Ben Voelker

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #257 on: July 30, 2010, 11:53:38 AM »
- you are pretty dead if you miss the green far right or far left; you're far more likely to make 5 or worse than 4 from there.  But short is OK, as is long... closer left and closer right are two pretty nasty bunkers, which are not DEATH but not nice places... 4 is a good score from either of those places.  I guess the "positive" takes on this do come from the miss short and long being OK, as well as the fact that those who have posted just like the fact that this is such a killer, heroic golf hole.

Tom,

For the record I quite like the hole.  Funny enough, I don't remember having much problem with it, but then again I was hitting a 6 from the middle tees instead of a 3 iron or 5 wood from the tips!

To some extent it is a microcosm of the strength of the course in that a) there's not another "heroic" par 3 on the course and b) its sandwiched between a short par 4 and a par 5.  It actually fits very well within the routing and the set of short holes on the course.

Ben


Tom Huckaby

Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #258 on: July 30, 2010, 11:55:58 AM »
Ben:

Totally understood - I didn't think you were criticizing the hole, just rather trying to get a better understanding of it.

Hell it's been driver for me from the tips... 216 uphill, effective 230... give me any hurting wind and that's driver.  No wind and if I really want to hit the green, it's three wood.  Crazy hard, oh yes.  But crazy thrilling, oh yes also.

In any case great call re the routing too.


Matt Bosela

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #259 on: July 30, 2010, 12:12:56 PM »
Tom,

Thanks for your take on the 13th - I know it's one of your favourites and now I understand the strategy a bit more.  I just have to get it through my thick skull that not every par three is going to be receptive to tee shots from every deck and therein lies the challenge.

Ben Voelker

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #260 on: July 30, 2010, 12:16:45 PM »
Funny to say for a 216 par 3, but it basically plays as a half par hole, doesn't it?

Michael Dugger

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #261 on: July 30, 2010, 12:20:30 PM »
Gene's paean above describes his moment of realization of just how special being among the Sand Hills can be.   In fact, I think that many people would have that overwhelming feeling of a moment of realization of your place in the universe in that environment even if you were not playing golf.  The fact that people in this discussion group are golfers, and have an activity perfectly suited for the situation they find themselves in when getting alone among such land forms, is frosting on the cake.  If you were riding a horse out on that land, you'd have to dismount and pick a place to have your moment of zen.  If you were bird hunting, same thing. It is the vastness of the endless land mass and poetry that it plays out in a dance between the cloud shadows and the land shadows, that is the perfect description of the word, 'allure'.  If you go out there, you are going to have your moment, as Larry the Cable guy says, "I don't care who you are, that is alluring right there".

The best description I've read why we as golfers have these moments, and it is so overwhelming when we are out on a piece of land like this is described by John Strawn in his book "Driving the Green" near the end where he goes into a little commentary of how we descended from hunter-gatherers, mainly in a Savannah environment where game is rich on the grasslands.  The hunt across these grounds, and the idea of impliment like bow and arrow, or anything that involves the activity of aim oriented targeting of prey, is in our DNA.  So, we hunt the little white ball.  We are like cats stalking a mezmerizing object in the tall grass.  We can't help ourselves. 

It is just like serendipity that these forces of game and allure to a mystical and ancient resident memory of land in our minds came together in the Sand Hills.

Thanks for that, RJ.  For a brief moment this morning I once again have hope for the world...
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Matt Bosela

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #262 on: July 30, 2010, 12:21:14 PM »
Funny to say for a 216 par 3, but it basically plays as a half par hole, doesn't it?

From the back tees, I'd have to agree Ben.

Pretty fair if you ask me, especially when you get another half par hole right away on the 14th!

Tom Huckaby

Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #263 on: July 30, 2010, 12:23:47 PM »
Matt:  well.. for a scratch or close thereto, that is always gonna be very hard to accept.  But yeah, I think that's part of what makes this hole so cool... even for you guys, it does play out this way.  There ain't many holes like it, that's for sure.

Ben:  heck yeah, call it a 3.5 par from the tips.  But it's not from any other tee... unless the wind is up (as it so often is), in which case, it's more like a 4.5.

Very tough hole, for sure.  I can understand how the high difficulty might put some off.  If every hole on the course were this bitchly hard, it would be a problem.  But thankfully.... it really is the only stone-bitch on the course.  Thus to me it's a very cool thing to have.  It is indeed unique.  And what's also cool is the stroke or two you lose on 13, you sure has heck have a good chance to gain back on 14.... or not....

Is there a good name for a hole like this, btw?  Sentinel?  Precipice?  High Plateau? Lighthouse? Volcano?  God my beard is stretching.

 ;D

Ben Voelker

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #264 on: July 30, 2010, 12:29:22 PM »
How about The Alamo ;D ;D

Tom Huckaby

Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #265 on: July 30, 2010, 12:42:52 PM »
How about The Alamo ;D ;D

We all sure do remember it.

 ;D

Scott Szabo

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #266 on: July 30, 2010, 07:18:21 PM »
Personally I love the 13th hole.  It is a damn tough par, that's for sure.  But what's wrong with that?  There are two places to miss it - short and long.  There are two places NOT to miss it - right and left. 

It fits in brilliantly before the 14th, and works magnificently in contrast to the short 17th. 

I think I read somewhere that Crenshaw feels it's one of best par 3's in the world.  I'm not gonna argue with him.

In my 5 plays, I have 2 pars, 1 birdie and 2 bogeys.  I've hit everything from a 5-iron to a driver on that hole.  Let me tell you, it's a serious "pucker moment" when you pull a driver out on that hole. 
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Adam Clayman

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #267 on: July 30, 2010, 10:58:39 PM »
Dick. Well done post. It makes one wonder about the native americans and how they evolved in this region. Quite the dichotomy.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tony Weiler

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #268 on: August 04, 2010, 11:24:32 AM »
Matt.....Matt....???  When do we get MORE?  Been waiting on the 14th for a while.  I need to get this in by the 17th of August, as I'll be there to see the course for myself.  Can hardly wait. 

Jason Topp

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #269 on: August 04, 2010, 03:30:30 PM »
The 13th is the one hole I have the most difficult time defending when people attack my view that Sand Hills is the best course I have seen. 

Tom Huckaby

Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #270 on: August 04, 2010, 03:32:29 PM »
The 13th is the one hole I have the most difficult time defending when people attack my view that Sand Hills is the best course I have seen. 

You do?
I have little problem... I think I gave a pretty good defense in this thread.
But I will say, 13 is the one hole that elicits the most bitching... which remains odd to me because it's one of the first holes I choose to praise.

But yes, we do need to move on to 14... one rarely hears much bitching about that one.

 ;D

Gene Greco

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #271 on: August 04, 2010, 11:15:01 PM »
        Good players relish the challenge 13 presents.

Upon stepping onto the 13th tee a member of Winged Foot asked, "Hmmm, what do we have here? Guess we need a high cut three wood..."    

Wind was blowing forcefully from right to left and somewhat hurting and he executed the shot to tweleve feet and made the putt for 2.

Done.

It's a difficult, heroic golf hole not unlike 5 at Pine Valley.

Played enough one figures out where to hit the shot in any wind direction and force to yield the best result...with the ball resting on the green.

Miss your target and suffer.

Just had the pleasure of playing with a group from Pine Valley at Sand Hills and almost to a man each chose #13 as their second favorite hole.

The PV and Winged Foot guys understand and appreciate a penal golf hole and the requirements for success as well as any golfers on earth.

And sometimes fun depends on ones perspective as to what is considered fun.

Wrestling alligators and jumping out of airplanes or sitting down for a game of bridge or attending the flower show?

In the words of Crocodile Dundee, " That's not a knife. THIS is a knife!"

#13 is like that machette he pulled out of its leather holder when the attacking thug showed him his wee switchblade.

I don't believe there are many other more thrilling shots in golf.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 11:17:09 PM by Gene Greco »
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Matt Bosela

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #272 on: August 05, 2010, 01:39:00 AM »
Matt.....Matt....???  When do we get MORE?  Been waiting on the 14th for a while.  I need to get this in by the 17th of August, as I'll be there to see the course for myself.  Can hardly wait. 

No worries Tony!  Updates will be coming tomorrow!

Rob Rigg

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 13th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #273 on: August 05, 2010, 04:25:47 AM »
Gene,

I am moved by your "Ode to Sand Hills" and totally understand your state of mind while sitting on the second green - that truly is a "wow" setting - it looks like you can just tee your ball up and play straight over the property line with limitless golf beckoning in the distance. SH is 18 golf holes sitting in an ocean of them - and then the thunder clouds begin to roll closer and the beauty of the land and the sky entwine in a way that moves the soul.

I love this game because it allows us to visit places that are simply magical - that we would never find if not for some short grass and a bunch of flags sticking out of the ground.

Sand Hills is certainly one of them.

Matt Bosela

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Re: Spectacular Sand Hills! (Photo Tour - 14th Hole Now Posted)
« Reply #274 on: August 05, 2010, 10:03:03 PM »
14th Hole - 508 Yards Par 5

The 14th hole works as a perfect compliment to the tough and imposing 13th, giving players the opportunity to get a stroke back that they almost certainly lost on the hole previous.

If only it was that easy!

This hole is an absolute masterpiece of strategic design.  The ideal drive must hug the left side of the fairway to give the long player a chance at a relatively open look to the green.  Anything slightly pulled will be gobbled up by a huge bunker complex that runs down the left side of the landing area and most certainly turn the hole into a three shotter.

The right side of the fairway is very inviting off the tee but the angle it presents to the green is less than ideal due to a perfectly placed bunker right in front of the green.

Layups to the left will again open up the angle to the green but the land drops off severely about 100 yards from the putting surface, meaning a blind third into the smallest green on the golf course.  And what a green it is!  It is pitched severely from back to front and there is a large bunker left in addition to the one in front.  Approach shots that bail out to the right are likely dead, as there is almost no room to land the ball on the green and have it hold.  In fact, the best play may be to putt the ball and use the contours around the green to get the ball within two-putt range.

This is undoubtedly the finest short par five I've had the pleasure of playing and must be on a very short list of the best "half-par" three-shotters in the world.

Tee Shot




Bunker Complex Left of Fairway in Landing Area


Second Shot from Middle of Fairway




Third Shot from Lower Left Portion of Fairway, Leaving Blind Shot


Third Shot from Center Portion of Fairway Late in Day


Short Right of the Green...not Ideal!  Notice the tremendous back to front slope.






Putting the ball around bunker may actually be the best play here


Perfectly placed front bunker


From Behind 14th Green Looking back up Fairway


« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 04:26:41 PM by Matt Bosela »

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