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Phil_the_Author

Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« on: July 01, 2010, 04:25:08 PM »
I came across an inbteresting article in the 1892 issue of Century Magazine. I think this is proof that the Scot's developed the true school of penal architecture:

"All bunkers, however, are not sand-bunkers, and on many links there is no sand at all. Those on which I am accustomed to disport myself are situated in the west country, on downs high above the sea-level, and the only luxuries that we can boast of in the way of hazards are walls, cart-ruts, whins and stone bunkers. Not that a stone bunker is a thing to be despised, or that a ball which has perversely dropped into it can be made to leave it with ease. The niblick, if properly handled, will accomplish wonders; but not even the niblick will avail when the wretched little ball has wedged itself firmly between two fragments of rock. In such a case there is nothing for it but to lift and lose a couple of strokes...

It was accompanied by this illustration:


Maybe a series of stone bunkers placed inconveniently from 280-330 yards off the tee is the real answer to the distance issue...

Anthony Gray

Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2010, 05:16:56 PM »


   Hole 2 at Teeth of the Dog has a hazzard full of rocks down the left side. Totally man made. It is the only place I've seen it. You can't play out of it.

  Anthony


Peter Pallotta

Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2010, 06:08:06 PM »
Interesting, Phil - and yet not a single forced carry to be found in the whole damn country! It seems our notions of 'penal' have changed a lot in 100 years.  To borrow one of Bob Crosby's words, I think in the last couple of decades architects have had to 'unpack' the term -- and related terms, like strategic -- before starting again. But many, unfortunately, haven't done that work -- and so you either get a kind of penal that's repetitive and idiotic (passing as tough but fair tests), or the kind that consistently punishes the average golfer much more than the scratch (at the country clubs for a day that market themselves as championship layouts, but that were actually designed as cart-revenue generators and housing developments).

Peter
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 06:14:17 PM by PPallotta »

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2010, 06:26:29 PM »
I think you are mis-understanding what "penal' is.
In 1892 that bunker wasn't designed that way, it simply was.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Phil_the_Author

Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2010, 06:54:27 PM »
Ralph, I meant "penal" tongue-in-cheek. I am fascinated by the idea that "stone bunkers" as an actual hazard, for it appears that is exactly what is being referred to here, rather than simply a shallow depression where nature had planted stones, not only were, but were considered common on golf courses throughout the region.


Peter Pallotta

Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2010, 07:02:19 PM »
Actually, Phil and Ralph, I think there is something significant here. The writer seems to be a tad embarrassed at the poor quality of hazards he tends to find, and then mentions the one full of rocks as a hazard not to be disparaged, in that it is a very difficult out (i.e. it's penal). He leaves the impression, to me at least, that if there was a pond fronting a green, he wouldn't have minded that one bit. A shot 'perversely dropped into" water and you're losing strokes for certain.  That the hazard was not man-made is neither here nor there, i think - the course was clearly laid out such that the hazard was in play.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 07:06:22 PM by PPallotta »

Phil_the_Author

Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2010, 07:19:22 PM »
Peter, the article is titled "The Apotheosis of Golf" and it was written by W.E. Norris. It covers 11 pages and is more of an introduction to the game, how it is played, with what utensils andwhat is to be found on the typical golf course. The first few pages are an examination on what constitutes the proper swing. After his description of the "stone bunkers" he also writes about "Whins" and others.

Most telling is this which follows his expostion on the whins. "For my own part, I have no such complaint to make. Only once, when I did the eighteen holes in 86, -- I am well aware that modesty ought to restrain me from refering to that historic event; but I can't help it, I never can help referring to it when I get a chance..."

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2010, 01:22:56 AM »
Interesting Phillip.  What do we know of Norris?   

Also “west country” would more often be referring to the south west of England i.e. Devon and Cornwall etc.   South Devon and Dorset  have a no of Downland courses and this would be an interesting truly local hazard.  The stones are likely flint. 

I will get some more photos up another time, but high downs give great views.






Let's make GCA grate again!

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2010, 02:07:23 PM »
Phil

In the 1890's they had the first real golf boom when the game simply mushroomed, firstly in Scotland and then spread south. Thats when the game moved away from the coastal areas and started getting played more in land. On these new inland sites the term bunker referred to any kind of hazard including ditches, hedges, walls etc. Indeed I don't think there was many sand bunkers on these early inland courses. They were almost always laid out on farmland and if you look at some of the routing plans from back then they were laid out to create as many forced carries over hedges, walls, roads or whatever. It was still a ground game in that you had to allow for the run but getting the ball in the air was what was considered a great skill.

Niall 

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2010, 11:04:59 PM »
Niall,
Actually, Gutty was an airborne game, Featherball was a ground game. The various hazards you mentioned were to force people to start hitting proper shots. So, yes, the first true penal elements designed into the routing, and it was in Scotland, but more likely 1870s, 1880s at the latest. Bunkers of course were being created and changing locations much earlier as hazards, but typically not in a penal manner as the lesser skilled could always play around them. Burns might have been the first penal hazard, but it is unclear as to when they were first used, at least I don't own any reference material that addresses a date. It was undoubtably at TOC.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 02:06:52 AM by Ralph_Livingston »
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2010, 06:16:29 AM »
Ralph

I stand corrected on the difference between the gutty and the featherball, before my time I'm afraid.

Certainly I think I'm right in saying the first major explosion in the number of golf courses was in the 1890's and these by and large were built on farmland away from the coastal areas. I've been digging up a lot of routings of courses in newspapers from 1890's and invariably they all have cross hazards that go right the way across the line of play. When you think of some of the holes at Prestwick and elsewhere its not hard to imagine where they got the inspiration from.

Niall

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2010, 06:14:08 PM »
Yes, those cross bunkers were to discourage people blading their balls and having them run on the ground, hopefully it would discourage that practice and get them to learn to hit it properly (up in the air). Vardon wrote an interesting bit about bringing the cross bunker back in his 1910 book.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2010, 06:18:39 PM by Ralph_Livingston »
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2010, 09:38:31 PM »
Peter,

How does one get across the Swilcan Burn, if not via a forced carry?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Peter Pallotta

Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2010, 10:08:52 PM »
Ron - not much of a carry, that little burn, is it? But maybe you're right, and maybe others can point to quite a few more 'forced carries' there.  I just thought that there might be more to this little article than first met the eye, and that Phil's tongue and cheek suggestion that penal architecture was invented in Scotland was worth mucking around with. And that post was the first thing that occurred to me, and so I wrote it out without thinking about it (my 'modus operendi' around here....) -- with a little excess and exaggeration thrown in. Since then posters who know a lot more than me have weighed in, so I defer. But I still fnd this worth exploring. 

Peter

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2010, 11:00:45 PM »
Tony:

What course(s) are your pictures from?  I don't recognize any of them but there are indeed some terrific views ... I wish the architecture was up to the setting.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2010, 11:51:09 PM »
Ron, you asked, "How does one get across the Swilcan Burn, if not via a forced carry?"

Two ways. Why you can bump and run or putt it over the bridge of course...

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2010, 02:58:19 AM »
If putting across the bridge is considered a reasonable way to avoid a forced carry then even courses that require 250+ yards over a chasm don't actually have a forced carry, unless the only way for golfers to get themselves over is via helicopter :)
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2010, 07:45:56 AM »
Tony,

I noticed a course in the same neighborhood (Bigbury) that looks as if all the greens and bunkers are surrounded by berms, almost  punchbowl-like, and every tee area is raised on a platform above the existing terrain.

Ever been there?
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2010, 12:20:40 PM »
Phil Young...I'll take that wager...you're not bumping and running it over that burn with any consistency and keeping it on the green!  You have to carry it, my friend.

Tom Doak...I'm guessing West Dorset and Thurlestone for Tony's pictures.

http://www.thurlestonegolfclub.co.uk/

http://www.bridportgolfclub.org.uk/
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Phil_the_Author

Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2010, 12:46:44 PM »
Ron,

I didn't say that one could or would score well or actually do it on the first try, just that one could conceivably "lay up" a few feet short of the bridge and give it a go if one were that paranoid about playing over the burn through the air!

I think my cheek is starting to wear out from my tongue...

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2010, 01:12:37 PM »
sorry, brah, my bad...should have sensed the humor.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Penal Architecture invented in... Scotland!
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2010, 08:23:26 AM »
The other feature of stony bunkers, roads and paths (metalled or otherwise), rocky outcrops and so on is that you can't predict where the ball will bounce to if you land in/on them. I can think of a couple of courses in the mountains of north Wales where these things can be very treacherous.