The “other” pieces of the pie….

[Jeff Dawson]

A few months ago there was a discussion on the importance of the owner vs. architect.  A golf project has two parts 1. The course and 2. The “other stuff.” “Other stuff”- entrance, clubhouse, cottages, practice area etc. all working together in conjunction with the quality of the golf course.

There are golf clubs that have great courses but the “other stuff” is poorly done.  There are places where the “other stuff” is well done but the course is not so good.  Finally there is the rare breed where both are perfectly done and it improves the experience.

Example:  Chechessee Creek- a good golf course but combined with the “other stuff” makes for a great experience.  The overall feel of the place is outstanding and while the course may not be compared to NGLA or Sand Hills (the land is what it is) a day at Chechessee easily compares with any great golf experience.

While I can think of lots of places where the “other stuff” is poorly done, it is a rare place that pulls it all off together.  I think it may be easier to build a good golf course than it is to pull the whole project together in a tasteful manner.

Can you name a place built in the last 20 years where the “other stuff” improves the experience? 

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff:

Caves Valley is the place where everyone talks about the "other stuff" and not the golf course.

Of my own courses, Stonewall, Barnbougle, and Cape Kidnappers all did a fantastic job of getting the little details right.  We were all completely surprised by how well they had done this at Barnbougle, where we thought they would be so busy struggling with grow-in that they wouldn't have time for the other stuff.  By contrast, I never worried about the details at Stonewall and Cape K at all, because I knew that Jack May and Josie Robertson had excellent taste.

[Brian Stewart]

I think Old Head qualifies.  The overall experience is outstanding.  The course is pretty good but has some weak holes and some overdone holes but you mostly forget that when playing there.  I've been there 10 times over the last 8 years and I have been consistently been told by my playing partners that it is their favorite course ever.  This is at the end of a trip that normally involves Ballybunion, Enniscrone, Waterville, Lahinch, etc, etc.  All of those are better golf courses but the experience at Old Head puts it over the top.

[JC Jones]

Doak will kill me for this but I'll say it anyways.... Kingsley Club

Great cabins, secluded experience, good music on the driving range, practice facilities, ambiance, everything.  Even the temporary clubhouse fits the bill because it lets the member or guest know that the place is about the golf and not the pomp.

I hope they never "build" a clubhouse.

[Chip Gaskins]

Certainly Mayacama fits into this camp....what a place that is!

[Adam Clayman]

Gold plate the toilets all you want, in this cynical world, it's as obvious as the balls on a tall dog who you are trying to impress.

 The 'other stuff' that improves the experience for me, is not the slate fireplaces or the bartenders concoctions, it's the people.

There's a place in North Platte called Lake Maloney GC. It's really an impressive $20 golf course. But what sets it apart, besides the GCA that's fun, are the Ma and Pop you might meet when you buy your beverage of choice as you pay your green fee, in their almost shack like pro-shop/bar. Their genuineness, when they ask you where you're from, is the first clue that you're not in Kansas any more, and at a special place.

[Jeff Dawson]

Adam- I agree with you.  Getting the "other stuff" right is relevant to the project.  I am not a fan of over the top places that look like the Ritz.

Tom- I agree re Caves Valley.  You have been lucky to work with some great owners who understand the rest of the picture.  Stonewall is a perfect example. 

The better the golf course the harder this is to pull off.  Sometimes the balance is difficult.  Like great golf architecture allowing the land to dictate the outcome is important.  Most land planners and developers tend to over build.  I can sit here and name 20 golf clubs that messed up with the other stuff.  Understated elegance seems to be difficult to pull off.

[Bill_McBride]

Ballyneal has everything right but getting there.  I loved the buildings in a circle with the bocce "court" in the center.  Everything was just right including the staff.

And the golf course has slipped easily into my personal top 25.

[Dean Stokes]

I think it should be more about the golf course than the 'other stuff'. What makes me chuckle all the time is when i hear golfers say they got the chance to play 'golf course x', "you know that top 100 course", and then all they talk about on return is the view from the clubhouse veranda!!!!!!!!

I have now fortunately had the chance to play several top 100 courses and it seems to me that location, who the owner is, how much it costs to join and how fancy the clubhouse is has more to do with their ranking than the course itself......

[Jaeger Kovich]

I get killed whenever I mention it, but Queenwood in Surrey, England has the best other stuff I have ever seen, and makes the experience so great.

There are plenty of NYC Metro clubs that certainly can fit into this.. most have solid courses to go with it too

[Ally Mcintosh]

I get killed whenever I mention it, but Queenwood in Surrey, England has the best other stuff I have ever seen, and makes the experience so great.

There are plenty of NYC Metro clubs that certainly can fit into this.. most have solid courses to go with it too

Whilst I know exactly what you are talking about with Queenwood Jaeger, I am a sucker for the more subtle approach of English traditional clubs... All that "service" just makes me faintly embarassed...

[James Boon]

Ally,

I much prefer the subtle approach of the traditional English clubs, but occasionally getting that next level of service is enjoyable, though I know what you mean by being slightly embarressed. The first time someone tried to take my clubs away as I was getting them out of the car, I almost told him to bugger off. I must have looked like Crocodile Dundee or something...

So if we are talking other stuff and meaning a warm welcome, great service, great clubhouse setting, interior and facilities etc then Castle Stuart has it for me, as the course there (whatever you think of the feau antiquity) is a pretty decent days golf. Its all a bit too much in comparisson to the more subtle British approach, and not a model for the future, but it certainly makes for a memorable experience.

If we are talking more subtle, then Royal Worlington did it for me. An e-mail the day before from the secretary to apologise that he wouldn't be able to greet me. Then the day I played, apart from a few members there was no one else there, but I was greeted by a steward who knew my name, breakfast and a coffee by a log fire, a few warm words before going off to play, then a simple sandwich lunch afterwards talking to two old boys in plus fours with a glass of red and their faithful golden retriever outside

Cheers,

James

[Adam Lawrence]

This may just be me being a cheap Yorkshireman, but every time I see stuff like bag drops at courses, I think to myself 'What's that adding to the green fee?' Who really help lugging their bag from the car to the first tee?

On the other hand, great food and suchlike is a boon. I thought Barnbougle did it perfectly - they don't spend money on any of the crap that doesn't matter, and they put all their focus on to stuff that actually makes a difference.

[James Boon]

On the other hand, great food and suchlike is a boon.

Am I? What, who, where... 

[Adam Lawrence]

James - how great to have a name that means a good thing!

[Jud_T]

Dunes Club

[RJ_Daley]

At the risk of being called a 'homer', I can say that the golf facility I use 95% of the time, is the perfect blend of using all pieces of the pie.   While the course is not new - it is a very good course for enjoyable and challenging play, where the clubhouse-proshop-and F&B facility was built and replaced a dilapidated one, now 8 years ago.  We are a county owned muni facility, where the super is the county department head, overall boss, who presides over both the maintenance and operational oversight of the proshop (higher on pecking order than the pro) and oversees the contract with a local resturantuer on the F&B.  The F&B is not only very reasonably priced, it is quite good quality.  We have an adequate locker room (nothing austentatious) but practical and well maintained.  There are no minions or assisitant bag handlers, player assistants etc, to make you annoyed or uncomfortably fawned over.  Yet, everything you need is there, carts, pull carts, nice practice facilities, etc.  And, the cart girls are quite nice hometowners, without being overtly tip hungry and trashy.  We have it very good at the Brown County golf course.

But, it is really a question of the pieces of the pie fitting the user profile.  Private clubs can go overboard, but not for some demograhics that you may not belong to or feel comfortable with yourself.  Yet, they fit their pie pieces nicely.  The same with CCFADs.  There are overstated, greedy for the $$$ all show and no go, and there are some really good ones.  It really is variable and where inadequately matched to the user profile, can be changed with a good or new management perspective.  I think it is possible that some good architects couldn't provide any helpful insights on how to get to the other good parts of the pie.  Some of them can't even get to the good part of a golf course.  Owner/developer/committee decison makers vision and understanding the user profile is everthing when it comes to assembling a pie, IMHO.