[Tommy_Naccarato]

With the back drop of the Tustin Marine Air Station’s massive hangers in the distance, the view from Shady Canyon’s 6th.

On Friday, I played my best Tom Fazio-designed course to date. Set up against the back drop of a city that seems to always be asleep--Irvine. It was a perfect Orange County day for golf. A blustery cool breeze was blowing patchy clouds from the Southeast, which means that wasn’t the perfect day for the average OC golfer.

We had the entire course to ourselves.

But make no bones about it, Shady Canyon is not your ordinary Orange County golf course. It is a high-dollar affair that is preported to be asking $250,000 membership fees in what can best be described as site ordained to the mountain lions that seem to flourish in the area. This is Orange County Golf at its finest.

Oh give me a home where the Mountain Lions roam and the golfers in their EZ-Go’s can play........

Stepping on to the first tee, or in the case of Orange County Golfer Aficionado--rolling-up to the first tee, is what can best be described as typical Fazio Golf. Straight hole, with a beautiful meandering fake creek (From which the mountains lions can drink from) with some good looking fairway bunkering staring you in the face. (Make that the right side of your face.) My normal complaint here is that most Fazio bunkering wouldn’t come into play in such situations, but this is the World of Framing--Welcome to it!

But with Framing comes Containment...And with Containment comes.....Never mind! Many (Jim Lewis) will think that this is bashing and that would be unfair, because ultimately there are in fact some good golf holes on this course. In fact the best hole in Orange County just does happen to exist at Shady Canyon’s down-hill, long dog-leg left par 5, 9th. It is the first Fazio golf hole I have ever seen where a cross bunker was utilized, and very well at that. It bisects the  fairway creating different options to the green. (Imagine that!) This hole happens to also be the most strategic Fazio hole I have played to date. So fear not Jim Lewis. Something maybe happening out here in the Wastelands of sunny SoCal, and I’m sure you will a much happier man for it


Hold the phone Martha! That is a fairway cross bunker I see in the middle of the fairway of this Tom Fazio designed course! (Maybe they are in fact listening to me?) (OK, probably not!)

Thinking about the greens, I can say that these greens are also the best Fazio greens I have been on to date. Nothing real bold, but just enough to give the most discerning of OC Executives a reason to get out of the office for a quick round in hopes that there maybe some challenge by way of solid Golf Architecture principles. Let me know if any of you find one of these executives. I would enjoy making him a playing partner.

Favorite greens on the course would have to go to either the par 4 10th which features a green that sorts of tails-off at the back and warrants some extra time to tap around some extra putts on, or the par 3, 5th which is an Disneyland “E” ticket from the back of the green.


I’m having a hard time trying to decide which is better: The serene beauty of the 10th or the fact that this picture might be worth something to the clients of a certain OC law firm. What else would you expect from a Tom Fazio designed golf course? It brings out the best of them!

The course does take on a certain Pelican Hill feel for a few holes on the back nine, meaning put in an ocean back-drop with a sunset and piped-in soundtrack of yacht motors running out to sea and you would think that you were there. (Actually just few miles as the crow flies...or in this case seagull.)

It’s just a short stretch of three out of four holes (12, 14 & 15) and considering that this is in fact, a some what positive review I’ll just say that it is out of character for the rest of the course.




Showing the change at holes #14 & 15

The other negative, which I had mentioned before is the Containment, and how it figures to much into the playability of the course. Now many will say that containment is supposed to aid the golfer from having to look for bad shots, but ultimately I think that on a course like this, it just doesn’t need it, and the Fazio organization would be better served to design more golf holes like the 9th, which can pique the interest of even the staunchest of Fazio critics like myself. Yes, remove that Containment and you have removed the Fazio Framing, or at least a major part of it, but I can’t believe how much of it looks so out of place for such a beautiful shady canyon. (Pun intended)

Lets hope that the next one is just as good. Trust me. You’ll hear from me if it isn’t.


Is Shady Canyon the “Pine Valley of the Pacific?” Nahhhhh!!!



From the 18th tee and then the 18th fairway.

[SGD]

I swear that if Tommy didn't identify the photos as from Shady Canyon, you would think these were photos from The Meadows Del Mar.  

I'm glad to hear the positives on Shady Canyon and I will reserve judgment until I play there next month.

However, based on looks alone, these Southern California Fazio courses are starting to remind me of the ubiquitous "Multi-Purpose" stadiums circa 1970s - Riverfront in Cincy, Three Rivers in Pittsburgh...they were the same stadium!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

SGD, Be very careful. We don't want to incite Jim Lewis. He might think we are patronizing this course.

However, the course is better then the Meadows at Del Mar, I'll let you determine just how much!:)

[Mike Cirba]

Tommy,

Far be it for me to judge a course from pictures, but these speak about 50,000 words.

You also are quite generous, my friend.  I almost fell asleep looking at them.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

An architectural note........

Since the close of the Tustin Marine base, those massive hangers have been used as movie studios, where they have filmed Austin Powers, "The Spy Who Shagged Me" and HBO's Tom Hanks produced "From Earth To The Moon."

Wait a second, this is about Golf Architecture........Sorry!

[Matt_Ward]

Tommy N:

Great stuff !

Can you post the hole-by-hole from the tips / mid tees and the CR and slope for each?

Is there anything else in Orange County that can compare?

Do you see the design philosophy of TF evolving with Shady Canyon? On the Doak scale your number for SC and as a bit of a comparison your number for Meadows Del Mar?

Many thanks!

[Tim_Weiman]

Tommy N:

I used to think that your comments about Tom Fazio were unfair, perhaps overly influenced by Fazio's association with what is happening at Riviera.

But, these pictures of Shady Canyon confirm my more recent suspicion that really you are more a product of Orange County than a true Fazio basher.

Frankly, Shady Canyon looks pretty unappealing to me.  Can you share why you like it so much more than the second course at Pelican Hill?

[Joel_Stewart]

Tommy:
I have to agree with Mike and Tim, I don't see anything special in these photos?  On the other hand, I spoke with another person who played it and he really liked it.  I only say that because this person lives at Black Diamond (another Fazio course) and has played every Fazio course ever built.

I have the same questions as some of the others but will ask did you hit every club in your bag and what type of Doak rating would you give it?

[Mark_Fine]

Tommy,
If you would have taken an extra day to go play Galloway when you were back here, you wouldn't have had to wait so long to play a good one of his  
Mark

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I want to make something perfectly clear. You'll never see em dfending Fazio--NEVER! But this course isn't as bad as some of you might think.

(Sorry Faz, I tried. They aren't believing me!)

Matt, I'm too lazy right now to go out and get the scorecard. Will do so in a few.

Mark,
I could have played Galloway the day I left. Instead I made more time for sampling Philly Cheese Steaks, canoli and another quick trip of Merion's East course before the bunker work was destroyed. It was truely a memorable day.

More photos.

The 3rd

The 4th

The 11th

[FOT]

Tommy, why when you show us pictures of a Doak, Coore, and Hanse course are they so CLEAR and beautiful, and all your pictures of Mr. Fazio's courses look like they have been taken with one of those drug store bought disposable cameras?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

FOT,
I can assure you that this is the same drug store-bought Sony Mavica I always use!

[cardyin2]

I played Shady Canyon last week and have these comments:
I am told the initiation fee is $165,000 for property owners and $190,000 for non-property owners.  Currently, there are about 60 members.  Some people who have applied for the $190,000-membership have received rejection letters even before the interview process.
In general, the fairways are very wide and forgiving; the greens are mean--many relatively large with several false fronts and sharp ridges.  There are four or five short par 4s and two of them--Nos. 4 and 7--are troublng.  They both face the same direction, are approximately the same length (about 345 yards) and appear to be very similarly bunkered.  I hit the same club into both greens--which are different(No. 7s is deep).  When I arrived at the 7th tee, I decided I had made a wrong turn.  "I just played this hole a couple of holes ago," I thought. It was pointed out that there is a building to the left of the 4th fairway, but there was none on the 7th, and that's the only way I could immediately tell the difference. Why they couldn't have reconfigured the bunkering on one of them is beyond me, particularly because they are so close together.
There are five par 3s. Each of them look different, and, from the back tees, have a decent dispersion of distances.  However, from the second set of tees, the distances are too similar--about 150 to 160. The course superintendent is going to have to pay attention to setting the tee markers to try to vary the distances on given days.
One nice thing about the course is that it's only about a mile to a mile and a half from I-405; yet, it's very quiet back in the canyons, which isn't always the case for California courses.  Worth $190,000 to get in?  Fortunately, that is not a decision I have to make.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy,

Can't speak for the course as I haven't played it, but I'm wondering if you hadn't given away the course and architect and just posted the pictures, would others have been POSITIVE rather than negative about the look, especially of the bunkers ?

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

Tommy
I think the quality of your photos is quite good - probably taken in the middle of the day. It's ironic to hear a criticism of the way this Fazio course is photographed, I believe that he wrote in his book that he consiously designed holes that would be great subjects of photographs.

Pat
Do you think maybe if Tommy had posted the pictures without identifying them, that it might help support your claim of bias on GCA? I recall Tommy posting a number of unidentified photos and asking for comments/analysis. Perhaps you can ask Tommy who designed what and go back and see if the comments might not suppost your claim for bias. I don't recall you offering your opinions, so it will difficult to measure yourself.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom MacWood,

You're whinning again.

I didn't comment on the quiz on photos that Tommy previously posted, because, unlike you, I'm not an expert on evaluating bunkers, greens or a golf course based on a photo or two.

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

Pat
If you doubt my ability and the ability of others to evaluate what they see in a photo, why suggest to Tommy that would have been of value to post the pictures without identification? What would that prove?  

Here's an interesting conundrum. If you post unidentified photos of Shady Creek and ask for comments. And those who respond say they like what they see, can we claim they are wrong because its unfair to evaluate photos or can we claim we have the utimate prood they are biased? I don't think we can calim both, although I think you may find a way.

[Mike Cirba]

FOT,

It's not the camera.

Can't you see?  It's simply that Tom Fazio has found a way to introduce a certain dreamlike quality to his architecture, similar to those gauzy Penthouse magazine photos in the 70s.  

I hear it's all the rage in "framing".  

[Tim_Weiman]

Pat Mucci:

Tommy N can tell you that in private conversation I expressed to him that I thought the bunkers at Shady Canyon looked pretty good.

It's really the rest of the "look" that turns me off, especially when compared to Tommy's Rustic Canyon pictures.

Like you, I can't judge a course by a few pictures, so my comments are just impressions.  Tommy seems to think the course makes a better impression in person than in photos.

[SPDB]

Who is Donald Bren?

[Mike_Cirba]

Patrick,

I can tell you exactly what I would have thought of the bunkers in the pictures, irrespective of architect.

Their shapes look out of context with any natural features of the site, although the one built along the rock ledge is pretty interesting visually, if possibly dangerous to play from.

The most perplexing ones to me are the two back bunkers on the last picture.  The one on the right looks to be part of some artificial mound feature that is strikingly man-made and the left one just seems to be an amorphous blob created for visual balance.  

The "sizing" of the bunkers is rather odd-looking, as well.  Perhaps it's just me, but they don't seem to "scale" really well for some reason.  You have this mixture of large, amoeba-shaped bunkers, small blobs, and then something in between used as fairway bunkers.  Many are set well away from greens, as they seem intended to be looked at as much as played from.  

Are they also as shallow as most appear?  

[John Foley]

The neat answer to Who is Donald Bren is Fred Couples Father in law!!

The other correct answer is Chair/czar of The Irvine Co.

Largest land developer is So Cal.

[A_Clay_Man]

Tommy- It looks on the surface as though your sweet little draw won't really get you close to the hole (on this course). Perhaps when I see you I can teach you how to close your eyes and swing hard to help facilitate the fade needed for this course.  

[C3PO]

"It's got a great feel and it's about as different as you can get from an oceanfront course. It looks like it's been there forever. That's the job, to make it look that way."
-Tom Fazio on Shady Canyon

[Mike_Cirba]

Just so I don't sound so negative, I would say that the best feature by far seems to be the WIDTH, followed by a lack of unnatural containing features..

I'm just not sure that the strategic options are utilized with the WIDTH.  

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