[Andy Troeger]

George,
I should have included a smily or something--you had made your comment about the photos proving your case so I figured you would take my comment with a light-hearted intent. That obviously didn't work out    Mea culpa!

[George Pazin]

Andy, it's my bad for allowing my ongoing "debate" with Matt to interfere with my interpretation of your post. Just because he chooses to lie about my posts doesn't mean I should assume everyone else will.

Have a good weekend.

[Andy Troeger]

No worries George--hope you have a good weekend as well!

[Dan Herrmann]

Thanks again to Charlie - we had a fantastic time in West Virginia.

I think PDGC is a course that takes few rounds to really appreciate it. After the first day, I was "Dye'd" out.  Miss a green in the wrong place, and you're hosed.  That gets a little frustrating.

But on the 2nd day, I started to really dig the place.  And now, in retrospect, I happy acknowledge that Pete built something really special.   It may be one of the future GCA student's reference courses if he wants to know what Dye is all about.

[Ryan Farrow]

Thanks for the photo tour Joe.

When I finished my round back in the pro shop I was talking to guy working there about the course, and the whole bit about remembering every hole came up, I didn't think much of it at the time, until someone else mentioned it in John V's thread and then I thought about it for a second and walked through all of the hoes through my head in what seemed like 10 seconds. I  would say that doesn't mean you have a great course, because the architecture could still suck, but in the case of PDGC, it doesn't. And I think that is a real testament to how good this course really is. Is it an Oakmont? No. But is it one of the best modern courses out there? For sure.

[Mike Cirba]

Joe,

Looking at Pete Dye GC I'm reminded how on most of the best courses not every hole needs to be some lengthy monster, and that most great courses have a sensitive mix of very long and very short holes.

It certainly looks to have much more humor and character than some of his most recent courses, and I really need to get out there and see it for myself.

[Ulrich Mayring]

I must say that I really like what I see here. Much, much better than Whistling Straits.

Ulrich

[Chris Cupit]

The pictures look very nice.
I have never played the course and it looks very solid.  My only complaint would be the water fall/fountain coming out of the 10th green.  It reeks of artificiality to me although I again will qualify my comment with the fact that I have never seen it in person.  It reminds me of the waterfall feature at Hawks Ridge in Atlanta on #15.

Both water features seem to come unnaturally out of nowhere.  Just curious what those who have seen it firsthand think.

[Ronald Montesano]

Is the short par three, even from the tips, the only thing that PDGC is missing?  Couldn't all the tee decks on # 7 have been 150 yards or closer?  The one thing I despise about the typical modernist courses of Dye, Fazio, Jones and Jones, Rulewich, Smith, Nicklaus, Palmer, et al., is the abject fear of a short par three from the tips.  As though a touring pro might hit 8-iron from 225...I'm curious as to what the Nationwide guys hit on #7 at Pete Dye, from the upper deck, above the mine shaft.

[Mac Plumart]

Great thread, great pics, great course.

I've only played it once maybe a year ago...and I can still remember every hole and every shot.  Aside from the dramatic beauty of the course, the golf is spectacular.  17 might be polarizing, but I am in the love it camp.

[Dan Herrmann]

Chris,
Sure the waterfall is artificial, but it does fit well into the coal mining theme.  I didn't think it looked out of place at all -heck, there are coal train cars up on railroad tracks there too.  I like it - it's whimsical, and I like whimsy on a golf course.

This is definitely not a Trumpian type of waterfall.

[Ryan Farrow]

Is the short par three, even from the tips, the only thing that PDGC is missing?  Couldn't all the tee decks on # 7 have been 150 yards or closer?  The one thing I despise about the typical modernist courses of Dye, Fazio, Jones and Jones, Rulewich, Smith, Nicklaus, Palmer, et al., is the abject fear of a short par three from the tips.  As though a touring pro might hit 8-iron from 225...I'm curious as to what the Nationwide guys hit on #7 at Pete Dye, from the upper deck, above the mine shaft.

Ronald,

I just played a Rees Jones course today, Totteridge.

I looked at the scorecard, 7,200 yards or 6,500. So I just circled on the scorecard where I wanted to play (most holes from the tips) and just made my own short par 3.

I say, if they don't give you what you want, do it yourself, pick the teebox YOU want to play, not what the scorecard or grounds crew says you should play.

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

Pete Dye GC is the real deal -- those who have their eyes opened will see the real genuis that Pete Dye provides. Other later Dye courses simply do not have the elements that Mike C so eloquently mentioned. If there's anything holding back the course is its general location because there are people who don't see WV as being capable in having such stellar golf. Their ignorance is indeed puzzling.

[Andy Troeger]

Matt,
Just from the pictures, I would say this course appears to have more in common with Pete Dye's older work than anything else he's done in the last twenty years. I understand the course took years to build/open so that may explain why it looks like something he might have done in the 80's when it was started. Its still Pete Dye, but its not nearly as busy visually as Whistling Straits or French Lick and makes good use of the dramatic landscape.

[Ivan Lipko]

I typically don't like Dye's courses as I believe they are very unnatural. Now this is a good one, looks great to me although it's difficulty is obvious.

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

The Pete Dye evolution of his contributions to course design clearly has gone through some major changes. In the most recent of years -- say the last 15 or so years -- Pete has often used, in my mind, an over-the-top assemblage of different design items -- see the slop of golf at The Irish Course at WS being one example. Some have said similar things to what Pete did at Lost Canyons -- although I still like what he did with The Sky Course there.

PDGC is well done on how the holes just work with the terrain and you don't see the abruptness or the "let's throw everything we can into the hole" mentality that has become the usual style of so many recent designs.

Like I said, WV doesn't get much play here but PDGC shows so much in terms of what made Pete Dye so special. Maybe the work benefited there from all the time it took for the course to bne finsihed.

[Greg Tallman]

Andy:

The Pete Dye evolution of his contributions to course design clearly has gone through some major changes. In the most recent of years -- say the last 15 or so years -- Pete has often used, in my mind, an over-the-top assemblage of different design items -- see the slop of golf at The Irish Course at WS being one example. Some have said similar things to what Pete did at Lost Canyons -- although I still like what he did with The Sky Course there.

PDGC is well done on how the holes just work with the terrain and you don't see the abruptness or the "let's throw everything we can into the hole" mentality that has become the usual style of so many recent designs.
Like I said, WV doesn't get much play here but PDGC shows so much in terms of what made Pete Dye so special. Maybe the work benefited there from all the time it took for the course to bne finsihed.

17 years provides plenty of time to review your one's original thoughts... especially when the owner knows how to operate a dozer and did so frequently in between Dye's visits. The original family has only recently exited the picture in terms of the ownership group.

Until reviewing this thread I had forgotten how strong PDGC really is. Even though I believe it vary overrated by GOLFWEEK it is a wonderful golf course and a ton of fun to play. Just wish 15 was not so bad of a golf hole.

[Matt_Ward]

Greg:

You say it's "vary (sic) overrated by Golfweek" -- how much of an overrating is present in your mind?

Would you not have the course in the top 50 of the modern layouts? Right now it's much higher than that -- believe it's in the top 10.

What elements make you see it in a lesser position?

It would help to know which Dye courses you truly like -- a top five listing if you can provide -- thanks.

[Randy Thompson]

I respect Dye so much for so many reasons, the course looks excellent and makes me want to play it and thats hard to with photographs! Thanks for taking the time to post so many great pictures and sharring them.

[Dan Herrmann]

There's one awesome shot that sticks out in my mind:  the 2nd shot on the 5th hole.

If your tee shot if over to the right you have a shot that needs to go along the river to the treen sort-of perched on the right side of the river.  It's like hitting a 200+ yard shot along a beautiful waterway.

I went for it twice and drowned it twice.  But it's one of the most memorable, beautiful shots I've ever attempted.

[Dan Herrmann]

BTW - There's a show on R/R Network (DirecTV 354) right now on PDGC.  It's called "Hot Golf" and they may repeat it.

Schedule:  http://www.rrtv.com/schedule.html

[Joe Bausch]

I had some hole diagrams laying around so I updated each of my posts above.

[Carl Johnson]

Tidbit.  When I was playing there a couple of years ago a large piece of the mine wall on right side of a hole came crashing down.  I believe it was on no. 6, but I would not swear to that.  Fortunately my drive was in the fairway, and not the scrub rough to the right, but it was nevertheless quite startling.

[Joe Bausch]

Tidbit.  When I was playing there a couple of years ago a large piece of the mine wall on right side of a hole came crashing down.  I believe it was on no. 6, but I would not swear to that.  Fortunately my drive was in the fairway, and not the scrub rough to the right, but it was nevertheless quite startling.

Were you playing in the group right after me?  I hit that thing pretty hard with a wayward shot.
 
 

[Carl Johnson]

Tidbit.  When I was playing there a couple of years ago a large piece of the mine wall on right side of a hole came crashing down.  I believe it was on no. 6, but I would not swear to that.  Fortunately my drive was in the fairway, and not the scrub rough to the right, but it was nevertheless quite startling.

Were you playing in the group right after me?  I hit that thing pretty hard with a wayward shot.
 
 

So, it was you!   

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