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Steve_ Shaffer

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Aronimink...the course is the star
« on: June 28, 2010, 10:15:27 AM »
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 09:38:30 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2010, 10:25:03 AM »
Nice links Steve, thanks for this.

Since he has been at Aronimink, fellow GCA'er John Gosselin and his staff have done a tremendous job. I entertain there with some regularity and it's reassuring to know the course will always be in great shape.
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"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Matt_Ward

Re: Aronimink
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2010, 10:47:27 AM »
Steve, et al:

Just curious to know among those who are experts on the Phila golf scene -- does anyone really see Aronimink being among the top five courses in the area ?

If so -- can you explain why?

Thanks ...
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2010, 10:50:31 AM »
Yes - because once you get past Pine Valley and Merion there's no course clearly better...several could be in the conversation, but Aronimink is really good.
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2010, 10:54:51 AM »
Jim,
If "Philly" includes Lancaster County, I think Lancaster CC is better than the 'Mink.  But they're both excellent.
------------------
By the way, if you're a resident of VA, DC, or MD - you can get into the PGA Tour event for free:

"Thank you for your support of the 2009 AT&T National!
To express our gratitude to the local Washington, D.C. community, we are offering all Maryland, Virginia, and Washington D.C. residents free admission to the 2010 AT&T National at Aronimink Golf Club! Simply present a valid Maryland, Virginia or D.C. driver’s license at the gate to receive your Daily Gallery Pass for FREE! "

(Just be sure to get reserved parking - the unreserved parking is in Oaks, PA, and is about 15 miles from the club)
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2010, 11:02:44 AM »
Dan,

I agree that Lancaster is great as well...even if I think it's probably tied with Aronimink...could be slightly better, but not much. Still can't see how Aronimink could be out of the top 5 within the region...
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2010, 11:10:08 AM »
Oh yeah, it's definitely Top 5.
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Matt_Ward

Re: Aronimink
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2010, 11:12:14 AM »
The issue I raised is not about the toughness of the course but it's architectural heft -- better than Rolling Green, better than HV ?

For those who see it as a clear #3 -- would it be fair to say you then believe it's a definite top 100 course in the USA ?

What has changed from the Aronimink that I played nearly 20 years ago -- at that time it was predictably long and quite boring.
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2010, 11:13:29 AM »
Quote from: Matt_Ward on June 28, 2010, 11:12:14 AM
What has changed from the Aronimink that I played nearly 20 years ago -- at that time it was predictably long and quite boring.


You've gotten longer!


Maybe you bit off more than you could chew...
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 11:23:34 AM by Jim Sullivan »
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Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2010, 11:18:40 AM »
Matt - You might find this link of interest ...

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40973.msg867186/
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"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Mike Cirba

Re: Aronimink
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2010, 11:19:59 AM »
Matt,

The restoration done by Ron Prichard a few years back changed the course markedly for the better.

Picture Oakland Hills returning to a pre-RTJ wasp-waisted bunker scheme, and you'll get some idea.
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Matt_Ward

Re: Aronimink
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2010, 11:22:14 AM »
Mike C:

OK -- then it's within your personal top 50 or top 100 courses you have ever played ?

Dan:

Thanks !

Jim S:

I'd really like to know the details that you believe see it as being a solid #3 in the greater Phila area.

Given the pedigree of courses in the immediate vicinity -- I am just curious to know more. My only visit there was a good bit of time ago and I didn't find the course (although in tiptop shape) to have much architectural heft. Good course -- no doubt. Worthy of going out of one's way to play it -- not really.
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Mike Cirba

Re: Aronimink
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2010, 11:25:34 AM »
Matt,

I didn't say it was in my top 3 in the Philly area...I said it was significantly improved from the time you saw it....and much, much different in positive ways.

I think you need to get out there and see what you think.
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Matt_Ward

Re: Aronimink
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2010, 11:27:11 AM »
Mike:

Fair enough -- but you sidestepped my last question -- of all the courses you have played -- would you have it in your personal top 50 -- top 100 ?


You also don't agree w Jim and Dan about the layout being in the top three phila area. where would you place it ?
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2010, 11:39:09 AM »
Matt,

I didn't place Aronimink as a stand alone 3rd place. I put it in a near dead heat with Rolling Green and Huntingdon Valley and if you want to include Lancaster (75 miles away), it too would be in that tie. I have a hard time with any statement really separating one from the rest in that group.

When I said you've gotten longer, I was serious...when I was a kid the complaint about AGC was too long, which seemed to make it boring. Well, we all hit it further than we did 20 years ago and now the holes offer options from the tee in both length and position. You are asked to hit the ball both ways to better access an ideal approach position and with your approach shots you must figure out where you can get in trouble around the greens and avoid it. The par threes are medium to long with a nice variety of looks and demands.

If you're looking for flaws, there is no real short par 3 (165 might be the shortest from the back tees) and the new 9th tip is about 600 yards and is a better hole at the old distance because its reachable for some.
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Matt_Ward

Re: Aronimink
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2010, 11:41:52 AM »
Jim:

Your desription of the course says the following to me -- solid layout but nothing really extraordinary from a design side of things.
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JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2010, 11:43:51 AM »
OK
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Matt_Ward

Re: Aronimink
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2010, 11:46:57 AM »
Jim:
The reason why I say what I did -- Rolling Green and HV have a lot of interesting and compelling elements when playing them.

I have not played the "new" Aronimink since RP finished there -- but from my lone time there I thought the course was fairly mundane -- it asked the player to execute at a high level for the balance of the par-4 holes there but it didn't leave me feeling that it really is special in a way that would mandate that anyone who drives through the area would be remiss in playing it.

I don't here anyone saying it's a dropdead cinch for their personal top 100 courses.
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2010, 12:16:36 PM »
Matt,

Come on down and see for yourself. The weather looks great for the weekend:

http://www.accuweather.com/us/pa/newtown-square/19073/forecast-weekends.asp

Quite frankly, I can't make much of a distinction between RG, HV and AGC,although I haven't played AGC after Pritchard but I did see it at the the Senior PGA a few years ago. I haven't played Lancaster.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 12:19:51 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2010, 12:47:52 PM »
Matt,
'Mink isn't as "exciting" as RG, but it's a still an excellent golf course.  Interestingly, it has a fairly low slope rating which may be evidence of what you're getting at.

But I don't think your comments are completely fair.  From what I know, Ron P. put the Ross back after RTJ kinda messed things up.  When you play it you can definitely see the Ross features - for example, I really liked the green complexes.

IMHO, my top 5 would be PV, Merion, Lancaster, RG, Gulph Mills (another Ross), and Aronimink.  I can't comment on HV because I haven't seen it.   I also think Philly GC should be in part of the discussion.

Fortunately, Philly has a LOT of really fine golf courses beyond the top 10 - from Stonewall and French Creek to the west to Hidden Creek and Atlantic City to the east.

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Matt_Ward

Re: Aronimink
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2010, 01:31:03 PM »
Dan:

Fair?

I've been quite open about my lone time there and have not opined on what RP did.

I don't feel the love for Aronimink -- respect yes -- but no real embracing of what's there.

Your own comments on RG speak to that point.
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2010, 08:31:52 AM »
Logged
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink...now with Ron Prichard's work
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2010, 09:46:31 AM »
Here is a story of Ron Prichard's restoration of AGC...with pictures and Ross drawings:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/golf/97368179.html
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Aronimink
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2010, 09:52:34 AM »
Matt,
Put it this way, I'd rather play Lancaster, RG, Lehigh, or Gulph Mills than Aronimink.  But that's just my personal bias.

Merion and PV are light years ahead of Aronimink, but that doesn't mean it's not an excellent golf course.

Put it this way, if I had a chance to join Aronimink, I'd do it in a minute.

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Matt_Ward

Re: Aronimink...now with Ron Prichard's work
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2010, 10:42:38 AM »
Dan:

I have no doubt that getting a free membership would spur many people to join not just Aronimink but others too.

I just wonder if the architecture at Aronimink is compelling -- your own preferences speak to that.

When you say an "excellent golf course" -- what Doak # do you give it?

From my lone time there it would have been in the 5-6 range. If you say it's a 7 then you would must see places like Lancaster, RG. Lehigh and Gulph Mills as being even higher than that.
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