Donald Ross arrives in the US, 2002

[Kris Spence]

If Donald Ross or someone like him were to arrive in the United States today with the same credentials as he did in 1899, what do you think his reception would be like by the architects practicing in this country.  Would the ASGCA, the association that he helped create allow him to join their ranks?  Could he call himself a golf architect as he did in his day, or would he be forced to call himself a designer?  Do you think he would be successful?

[Brad Klein]

Winning a few Mass Opens and Pinehurst North-Souths would help, plus making the cut in half a dozen US Opens and a top-10 in the British. Ross' best bet might be to become project architect for his younger brother, Alec, after he won the 1907 US Open.

Interesting question. You think Macdonald, Tillinghast and Thomas would have stood a chance either? They would have had to go (back) to school to earn their Landscape Architecture degrees.  

[Paul Richards]

Brad:

Or how about Mackenzie?

What are your credentials, sir?

Alister says, "Well, I studied camouflage in the Boer War, and I'm a Doctor, so hire me to design your course."

Don't think that would go over so well today ...

[Ran Morrissett]

So whose resume would sell - Raynor's, given his undisputed engineering talents? But as a no-name, mediocre golfer, what chance would he have stood without Macdonald's pizzazz?

Where do you put on a resume the abilty to crawl through bracken at a potential site like Yale where you emerge  blooded but confident that you've found an ideal routing?  

[Craig Rokke]

The profession is much more mature and competitive these days, and I think it would be a comparatively difficult one to break into. With the proper steps to strengthen his resume', I think a young Ross could eventually call himself whatever
term he chose, and I think his natural talent would eventually
lift his career.

[Jeff Mingay]

Hypothetical situations aside. What about Pete Dye? According to the definition of many, he shouldn't have been permitted to do what he's done. Yet, I bet those same people praise his work today, after the fact.

[Brad Klein]

Actually, Ross' plans were probably more extensive than any of his contemporaries - as early as 1910 he was doing rough hole-by-hole sketches, and by 1920, when he hired his civil engineer, Walter irving Johnson, his sketches became converted into full blueprints and documents that are still elegant to look at. I would imagine that by then, his documents would have passed muster with ASGCA membership guidelines - though getting started might have been tougher for him.
 

[Tom Doak]

I was going to say exactly what Brad did.  Ross wouldn't have qualified for the Society in 1900, but once he got his practice going, his set of plans was better than those produced by most architects today.  H.S. Colt and William Flynn also did excellent plans.  I haven't seen enough of Tillinghast's to comment on his.

Dr. MacKenzie clearly didn't have the patience for such plans, even though his routings and his green details gave Russell, Morcom, Fleming and Maxwell enough information to do something right!

However, the ASGCA isn't always a stickler for such plans.  Pete Dye could draw them, but he doesn't, and they don't question whether he should be an architect.  They let Bill Coore join, even though he was up front about the fact that he didn't work that way.  And I've been told they would treat me the same way, except for the few members who have a large chip on their shoulder about something I've written in years past.

However, to go back to the original question, I think if Donald Ross arrived in Massachusetts today, it would take him a hell of a long time to establish himself in the profession, or even to get his foot in the door.  I'm certainly not questioning his talent; it's just a much more competitive business today, and there are a lot of other apprentice golf professionals who'd love to be architects, too.

[Bradley Anderson]

The same principles that made him successful in his own era, would apply very well, I think, to this one.

He was very disciplined. He managed time like no one ever has. He was obviously a very good business man. He was a good writer, and communicator. He had true golf sensibility. He knew how to handle the press. So far as I know, he never designed anything superfluous. Where technology was useful he adapted it to his work, but only if it was useful. He was no follower of trends; he knew who he was, what he could do, and he was very comfortable and confident about it.

One of the things that comes across in Brad Kliens book is the quiet self assurance. I would suspect that when you were with Ross, you felt that you were in the presence of greatness, and that quality would have propelled him to the top, even today.

Success never changes. Success is laregly in the psychology of the sell, and Ross had the prowess, mental toughness, and wisdom to win in any era. Oh and one more thing: he was a true artist.

He would not have be one for total site preparation. I think he would have gone about business in much the same way today, as he did then, with only some extraneous movement associated with environmental requirements and restrictions.

The only question is if he would have carried a cell phone.


Bradley

[Bradley Anderson]

Another thing that would make Ross successful today:

Ross must have inspired loyalty with those who worked for him. He was a gifted delegator - he had to be for so many projects to be happening simultaneously.

A mark of good delegators is their ability to inspire loyalty in their subordinates. Ross must have had this gift, because his work translated from the drawing to the field with such consistency over such broad distance and time. How else could this happen if he was not genuinely admired and liked by the men who worked for him; the men he entursted with the bull work in his absence ?

Ross had a cadre of loyal, efficient, and talented workers on his team. That spells success in any age.

Bradley

[TEPaul]

KSpence:

What a great question, hypothetical as it is!

If Ross showed up here now with what he possessed in 1899 probably the best thing for him to do would be to get on a plane and head back home--and wouldn't that be about the height of IRONY!