[Steve_Lovett]

Have there ever been so many layup holes on a US Open course - and not just by the longest players in the field...

Most players hit fairway woods, hybrids, or irons (even some mid-irons) on holes 1, 3, 4, 6, and 8.  By the time they reached the 9th tee, many players (most?) had only hit one driver the entire round, on the 2nd hole.

I can't think of another course/championship that took the driver out of the players hands as early and often.  Is there another?

Is this a good thing?  Is it a "gimmick" to make up for Pebble's lack of length, or does it contribute to the sound character of the golf course?

[Anthony Gray]

  I think it magnifies shot making and doesn't bow down to the bombers.

  Anthony

[Bill_Yates]

Anthony
Your premise is wrong, there's only one layup hole on the front nine at Pebble Beach, it's number 8.

Holes #1,3,4,and 6 are not layup holes, there is nothing about the design of these holes that forces the player to "layup" short of any hazard. 

Players may choose not to hit a driver on a Par 4, 380 yard hole because they see no strategic advantage to doing so (Hole #1).  Then again, they may choose to hit a driver off the tee on a Par 4, 404 yard hole 60 yards left of the centerline and lose the ball in 3 foot deep rough (Johnsonon Hole #3).  It's possible they might even elect to hit an iron 220 yards into a fairway bunker like Woods did on the 331 yard 4th hole. These were not layup shots they were strategic choices each player has the option of making.  You might also have noticed that on that same Hole #4, Johnson hit driver right, and into the ocean and Mickelson hit driver (or possibly it was a 3 wood) on to the green (then 3 putted).   And how in the world can you call #6 a layup hole?  It's 352 yards from the back tee to the end of the fairway.  These holes give players strategic choices, the element so many on this site wish most courses would provide.

You are right about Hole #8, however, unless you can drive the ball 400 yards, you have to lay it up on top of the cliff.

[Jim Sweeney]

In the same vein as Bill, I think Mike Davis and Tom O'Toole might have been surprised that so many players laid up on the early holes, especially No. 4. On number three many players hit 3 wood, but not to lay up, it was just the right club for the longer hitter.

I think the intent was to entice the players to go for it, but they chose not to, apparently due to the firm conditions.

[Steve_Lovett]

In the same vein as Bill, I think Mike Davis and Tom O'Toole might have been surprised that so many players laid up on the early holes, especially No. 4. On number three many players hit 3 wood, but not to lay up, it was just the right club for the longer hitter.

I think the intent was to entice the players to go for it, but they chose not to, apparently due to the firm conditions.

Perhaps "Lay up" isn't the right term.  However, the ideal strategy for most players for the first 8 holes (except the 2nd) took the driver out of their hands. 

Should a championship venue test a player's excellence in hitting driver to a greater extent than Pebble did?

[Bill_Yates]

Oops, sorry Anthony, I meant to address my first post to Steve.

Steve, you're right, I was taking exception to your use of the term "lay up." 

Now regarding the USGA and the players using driver, what will be your reaction when in 2016 Mike Davis sets up the Par 3 eighth hole at Oakmont to play as a 300 yard Par 3?

[Bill_McBride]

Oops, sorry Anthony, I meant to address my first post to Steve.

Steve, you're right, I was taking exception to your use of the term "lay up." 

Now regarding the USGA and the players using driver, what will be your reaction when in 2016 Mike Davis sets up the Par 3 eighth hole at Oakmont to play as a 300 yard Par 3?

I think it was 285 one day last time at Oakmont, but it was easier than #17 at Pebble, there is plenty odf room to run a 3 wood or driver onto the green.

[Doug Siebert]

You are right about Hole #8, however, unless you can drive the ball 400 yards, you have to lay it up on top of the cliff.

 
I wonder if anyone has ever driven over the chasm on #8?  You'd think one of the long drive champ guys could do it...not saying it would ever be a sensible play, but would be kind of fun to watch 

[Bill_Yates]

Doug - Great idea! 

That could be the Golf Digest Challenge program for the 2019 Open.  By then, who knows where technology will be?  Also, it will replace a totally boring 60 minutes (I only watched for 5 minutes) of rank amateur golfers trying to break 100 -  and not doing it.

[Anthony Gray]

  Nobody hits driver on No 1.

  Anthony

[Matthew Petersen]

  Nobody hits driver on No 1.

  Anthony

People who only hit driver 225 do. 

[Bill_Yates]

  Nobody hits driver on No 1.

  Anthony

And so.....?

[Forrest Richardson]

I agree with Bill, No. 8 is the only "forced" lay-up hole. And, since I coined the "Five Design Strategies" it seems acceptable to weigh in on what constitutes a lay-up hole. Regardless of what players play on other holes — that is their business — it remains No. 8 that virtually demands a lay-up.

By the way, I am not entirely comfortable with No. 8. I think the fairway should be expanded and options brought into play. No point in having all players effectively play the "same" shot to the green. This is what makes golf a bore. Now, when you have 3, 4, or 9 different shots to the green: That is cool!

[Tim Gavrich]

Re: #8 at Pebble...

Is there a forward tee on that hole that would make it play about 300 yards?  The prospect of trying to hit a heroic drive over the cliff and the ocean to the area just short and left of the green sounds thrilling, potentially.

[Bill_McBride]

I don't think that a lot of lay up options is a bad thing at all.  What's bad is no options at all.  There are many holes at Pebble, depending on the conditions, where a foursome might each hit a different type of tee shot.

Now if the USGA would just get those tiny greens running around 10..........

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