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Mike Cirba

Are there Six Hole Locations on the 14th at Pebble?
« on: June 19, 2010, 10:53:21 AM »
Apparently, the rationale being given for flattening the 12th (and 15th?) greens at Merion is that six hole locations are needed for the US Open to accommodate four rounds and two practice rounds without undue wear and tear.

Are there six viable hole locations on the 14th at Pebble, and can anyone tell me where they are?

Phil_the_Author

Re: Are there Six Hole Locations on the 14th at Pebble?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2010, 11:03:54 AM »
There are quite a few of them Mike, all around the perimeter of the green. In fact, they are marked with big black ovals... oh wait, those are the sprinkler heads...

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are there Six Hole Locations on the 14th at Pebble?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2010, 11:12:05 AM »
Yes.

That area on top is not that small. It has the ridge that separates it from the right half of the green. The area just over the bunker slopes away from the golfer, and, is the reason so many golfers fail to think properly. Their focus is to just carry that bunker and that's their doom because of the bounce away from them. Moving back towards the rear the area fans outward, giving that shelf ample room for at least six different hole locations. The back side of the ridge is likely the coolest feature because it takes unbelievable trust to play a putt towards that right side of the green.

On the telecast last night Andy North described Padraig's birdie as lighting fast. Well, Andy was wrong. The last part of that putt had to climb the down slope coming off the of the backside of the bunker, mentioned earlier. Further evidence of that downslope towards the rear was witnessed on both Mickelson's birdie putt and YE's Ocho. If you watch Zach Johnsons first chip from behind the green, he missed catching the influence of the center ridge because once his ball started to climb the bunker's backside hill, it started to drift left because he was approaching it from the right side of that hills influence.
It seems like a very easy fix to raise the HOC on the entire right side of the green making it possible for the balls to come to rest before reaching the fairway at the bottom of the apron.


Mike Davis decision to cut the left green side bank is likely the most controversial call, because if it was long rough, the hole would be playing under par. A miss left would stop there leaving these guys a shot they are all very familiar with. My opinion is that it should be shaver farther, or use the graduated rough concept there, allowing more random results while encouraging players to be a little more creative with shot choices.

Mike it is flatter than Merion. Sorry for the tangent.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Phil_the_Author

Re: Are there Six Hole Locations on the 14th at Pebble?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2010, 11:32:45 AM »
Adam,

I must disagree with your statement, "Mike Davis decision to cut the left green side bank is likely the most controversial call, because if it was long rough, the hole would be playing under par..."

Regardless of whether or not scores might be better with the rough cut up to the green edge, having the shaved area was NOT Mike's idea or decision. In fact, he was able to REDUCE it in size from where it actually went much further down into the rough area at the PGA event earlier this year. 

Mike Cirba

Re: Are there Six Hole Locations on the 14th at Pebble?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2010, 11:33:13 AM »
Adam,

I have no qualms with the 14th, either.   I'm just not seeing where you could put six hole locations on that green unless they are all in very close proximity, sort of defeating the "wear and tear" argument.

How many of the six are on the left side of the green and how many are on the right?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Are there Six Hole Locations on the 14th at Pebble?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2010, 12:23:08 PM »
Mike:

I believe the hole location will be top left at 14 every day this week, and Monday too if necessary.

They are okay with cutting the hole 6-8 feet from the hole they used day before yesterday, so all you really need for an Open is one flat [2%] spot on the green that's about 30 x 30. 

They would much rather stick to the same proven area than take a chance with a steeper slope like the one they had at Olympic which cost Payne Stewart dearly.  They thought by going there one round out of the four, on Friday, it might be tough but it wouldn't be seen as costing anybody the championship ... but it didn't work out that way.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 12:25:47 PM by Tom_Doak »

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are there Six Hole Locations on the 14th at Pebble?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2010, 04:43:15 PM »
Is the slope on the entire right side such no ball will stay on the green.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Are there Six Hole Locations on the 14th at Pebble?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2010, 04:49:30 PM »
Tiger:

I haven't been there to observe the speed of the greens, but if they are as fast as I assume, a ball hit to the right half of #14 will wind up against the collar or off the green entirely, either to the right side or the front.  There might be a little spot at the front right which is flat enough the ball would stay, but they aren't going to put the hole down there.

Tom Jefferson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are there Six Hole Locations on the 14th at Pebble?
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2010, 06:53:28 PM »
Tom D.................I have been on that green twice daily this week (greens volunteer), and noticed there is one spot at the top of that entire right portion that has had cups cut.  Don't know how old, or at what green speeds, the cup was there.
That would be the only possible cup location that isn't on the top portion of that green.

I do not think that green is unfair.....simply demanding of excellence.

Tom
the pres