[Phil McDade]

Matt:

What, specifically (that word means "provide specifics..."), don't you like about the set-up at Pebble? We know your thoughts on the agronomy of the greens. Anything else? Fairways? Rough? Length of holes? Anything else?

[Scott Macpherson]

A lot of what has been said in this topic – as regards the bumpiness of the greens – I believe could be alleviated if we didn't have this fascination with green speeds. I wonder if those that set-up our golf courses could accept speeds of 8 or 9 on the stimpmeter, then the grass on the greens could be a little longer, and this, particularly on greens with more than one turf-grass species in them, would allow grasses with a more upright growing habit to support the ball when it rolled over the seedheads of other grasses (e.g. poa annua).

On some of our older courses this acceptance would also allow the hole to be cut in areas of the green where it currently can't thus reduce wear and compaction by increasing the useable area of the green.

We should not be at all concerned with the colour or speed of our greens (especially the uniformity of speed- what nonsense!), just the smoothness. Only then will putting return to being the art-form it is.

scott

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

This new Tiger is interestng. Let him cry a bit. He is hitting balls places I have not even looked at before much less hit a shot too.

[Matt_Ward]

Scott:

Well said -- only if people take the cotton balls out of their ears !

Pete:

Do what Scott has suggested. If that's not possible then bag going to PB. Of course, the traditionalists and those within PB and the USGA who are addicted to the $$ the place generates won't do that.

Phil:

Let me ask you a question -- do you see the set-up of the greens as being appropriate? I say let the grass grow a bit and if the speeds were not 11 or more so what. The same thing applies with the rough -- PB already has small greens -- no need to have rough that is too high or dense. Recovery needs to be part of the game. 

[Phil McDade]

Phil:

Let me ask you a question -- do you see the set-up of the greens as being appropriate?

YES -- I see lots of putts being made by players playing approach shots into greens correctly.

I say let the grass grow a bit and if the speeds were not 11 or more so what. The same thing applies with the rough -- PB already has small greens -- no need to have rough that is too high or dense. Recovery needs to be part of the game.

The fairways under Davis' set-up appear to have plenty of width, with proper club selection off the tee. Rough should be penal with fairways cut this wide.

[Matt_Ward]

Phil:

Fair enough -- let's see how the event shakes out. I'm willing to keep an open mind - hope you are too.

[Garland Bayley]

Lefty continued his luck with 8 putts through the first 8 holes. Should we get Brent Hutto in here to calculate what an outlier that must be?
Amazing luck especially since it was done in the afternoon when the greens are "awful".

[Adam Clayman]

Wow, What an afternoon. Everything is rolling in. Looks like this group has figured out how to putt Poa.

These greens are not horrible greens. They require a different approach. A more aggressive one because they will rarely roll in with out an authoritative stroke. For those who think they should be ripped up, for a different grass, or disfigured, are advocating the same wrong argument that has plagued GCA on many classic venues for decades. Either that or they are basing this all from the television and have rarely played golf on the Monterey Peninsula.

[Tim Bert]

Did you guys here the audio exchange between Phil and Bones on the 14th tee?

Bones: "Phil - let's see if we can ride this unbelievable luck into a birdie chance on this hole.  Whip out the driver."

Phil: "Are you kidding me?  Have you seen how unlucky some great shots have been around that green?  I am just going to try to play this one with three well-positioned shots and then hope I get another one of those lucky bouncing putts that ends up in the hole like I kept getting on the front nine!"

Bones: "you might be right. You've been unbelievably lucky how all those well struck putts have been going center cut into the hole. Lets go with the lucky putt approach from here on in."

Phil: [goofy grin] "Golf is so much more fun when luck plays such a big role. I mean, it gives us all a tool to compete against Tiger's superior execution.  It would be really cool to luck myself right into world #1."

Kudos to the ESPN team for getting their crew well-positioned to capture this enlightening discussion. 

[Ian Larson]

Wow, What an afternoon. Everything is rolling in. Looks like this group has figured out how to putt Poa.

These greens are not horrible greens. They require a different approach. A more aggressive one because they will rarely roll in with out an authoritative stroke. For those who think they should be ripped up, for a different grass, or disfigured, are advocating the same wrong argument that has plagued GCA on many classic venues for decades. Either that or they are basing this all from the television and have rarely played golf on the Monterey Peninsula.

Exactly!!!!

[Phil McDade]

A few random Mickelson comments from his post-66 press conference:

-- Said with a hint of sarcasm: "Well, the greens aren't Augusta smooth."

-- Said he got hot with his putter, and that his success in putting today was because he left his approach shot below the hole in nearly every case. His only bogey, on 9, came with a downhill putt that got away from him.

-- Said uphill putts will stay on line on Pebble's greens. Downhillers -- not so much.

Sounds like a guy who's figured something out...

[Jon Wiggett]

If Tiger is serious about winning majors and he knew that the greens at PB were going to be bumpy I just wonder how much practice he did on bumpy greens in preperation for this US Open?

Jon

[Jim Nugent]

Tiger has turned into Sergio? 

How the mighty have fallen. 

[Jud_T]

Looks like they got the message and put a bit more water on 'em yesterday.  That combined with a cool overcast day kept the greens from getting baked as they apparently did on thursday.  Interesting to see how they handle the weekend, which is traditionally tougher, particularly if it's sunny and a bit warmer.

[Anthony Butler]

Looks like they got the message and put a bit more water on 'em yesterday.  That combined with a cool overcast day kept the greens from getting baked as they apparently did on thursday. 

The lack of sunshine also slows down growth of poa during the day.

[John Moore II]

A few random Mickelson comments from his post-66 press conference:

-- Said with a hint of sarcasm: "Well, the greens aren't Augusta smooth."

-- Said he got hot with his putter, and that his success in putting today was because he left his approach shot below the hole in nearly every case. His only bogey, on 9, came with a downhill putt that got away from him.

-- Said uphill putts will stay on line on Pebble's greens. Downhillers -- not so much.

Sounds like a guy who's figured something out...

The uphill putts stay on line better because you can really give them a frap. I play on bumpy greens as much as anyone, they are just hard to play on in general if you really want to shoot a great score.

If Tiger is serious about winning majors and he knew that the greens at PB were going to be bumpy I just wonder how much practice he did on bumpy greens in preperation for this US Open?

Jon

How exactly would you go about practicing putting on bumpy greens? I  mean, no amount of practice will help you judge what way your ball is going to bounce when it rolls through some hole or other depression. That can't be practiced.

Honestly, I think he was just irritated he putted bad and said something that probably aught not to have been said. Whatever, I've done the same thing and I'm sure nearly everyone on here has. It happens.

[Jon Wiggett]

If Tiger is serious about winning majors and he knew that the greens at PB were going to be bumpy I just wonder how much practice he did on bumpy greens in preperation for this US Open?

Jon

How exactly would you go about practicing putting on bumpy greens? I  mean, no amount of practice will help you judge what way your ball is going to bounce when it rolls through some hole or other depression. That can't be practiced.

John,

I grew up playing on very bumpy poa/bald patch greens. It is something that if you practice you can get use to it and improve. Putting is a very fickle thing. One day everything goes in and the next nothing. It is human to blame things such as bumpy greens but Tiger should know better than to say it. He knew it was going to be that way so maybe he shouldn't have played.

Jon

[Jud_T]

Mike Weir, in his interview after struggling in the afternoon, said that it's basically hit and hope on those greens in the afternoon.  Essentially you have to be below the hole so you can be aggressive and hold the line.  Phil said the one downhill putt he missed as it bumped off line was because he didn't hit his approach to the right spot.  It was also funny on the Golf Channel last night to hear Rosy and Brandel play Matt Ward and TDoak to a tee on this subject...

[Matt_Ward]

Jud:

I missed the interview -- maybe Tom and I can substitute for the next time.

[Matt Kardash]

I think the solution to the greens problem is for all of us here to pool our funds so we can send Matt Ward back to school. I say he starts off getting his bachelor's degree in biology. Then he can do some post-grad work studying agronomy, and more precisley on how to find a strain of grass that can grow in the montery penninsula and be smooth to putt on. So he definitley has to be studying genetics as well. Then once his thesis is peer-reviewed and accepted as good science Tom Doak can promote this new grass to Peeble Beach, because he has many connections in the golfing world. Before you know it, problem is solved. Who's with me?  

[Matt_Ward]

Hey Matt:

You're right -- guys like Woods, Weir, et al - don't know squat either. They should sit with me when class is in session.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Frankly, so why hold the defining championship in American golf on inferior greens?

It's simple -- $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Ian Larson]

I don't understand how adjusting your putting stroke to slightly bumpy afternoon greens is any different than adjusting your putting stroke to greens with grain. Bumpy poa greens get crucified yet grainy greens get romanticized. I don't get it?

[John Moore II]

I don't understand how adjusting your putting stroke to slightly bumpy afternoon greens is any different than adjusting your putting stroke to greens with grain. Bumpy poa greens get crucified yet grainy greens get romanticized. I don't get it?

Because grain is predictable. Bumps are not. Ever putt over a pitch mark that wasn't repaired properly? Who knows where that ball is going to go. Bumpy greens are much the same. You have to be super aggressive and thats not very easy to do.

In all honesty, will a bent strain not survive on the peninsula? Poa is hard to keep out of nearly anywhere that is near the water, but somehow coastal North Carolina courses have been doing it for years, most of them anyway.

[Matt_Ward]

Ian:

Why have either ?

It's amazing we are in the year 2010 and we can't have condition that both challenge and reward execution.

If people want so much unpredictability then just add the clown's mouth and the loop-to-loop too.

[Ian Larson]

I'm not necesarrily promoting either in any case. My greenkeeping instinct is only telling me to manage a green to reduce grain and maximize consistency. But no matter what, make them consistent. Consistency is fairness. Inconsistency means unpredictable. And there should be a certain degree of predictability with how the ball rolls on the surface from green to green. Consistency from green to green shouuld be the common denominator with the contouring being the element that is the variable and unpredictable. That being said....bumpy, grainy or smooth greens..,,as long as it's consistent from green to green all is fair.


John,

you can't compare Coastal Carolina conditions to coastal California. It's completely different. I will say that because I started my career in Myrtle Beach and Im currently in SoCal. You just can't even begin to compare it. It's night and day.

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