[Joel_Stewart]

"I hit the ball well enough to shoot a good score," Woods said. "These greens are just awful. They're moving every which way."

It the main reason he hasn't played in the AT&T in years.  Furthermore he had a late start which made the greens more bumpy.  

[Bill_McBride]

They did look bad. 

Time to blow them up?

[PThomas]

is he the only one whining about them?

[Michael Dugger]

Whether for the sake of the At & T

or to justify $495 greens fees, I think the answer is quite audibly

YES!  Fix them.  It probably doesn't help that they are all dinky, either...

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Is this due to weather, new grasses, or something else?  

I recall watching the 2000 Open, and watched a few videos before to refresh my memory--the greens look sort of, not marbled, but not the more uniform lighter green color as in 2000. 

These are poa annua greens, correct?  Same as at Bethpage.  I don't think I've seen them with these colors and shades before.  

But, Tiger didn't complain 10 years ago.

[Adam Clayman]

Tiger whining? Poor baby.

Blowing them up and letting Arnie drop some Bay Hill bombers onto that site, should seal Mike Keiser's domination of that segment of the market.

[Richard Choi]

Yes, this is definitely a question for the sup's around here. What causes those splotchy look on the greens? Is it different strand of poa? Is it different variation of browning? Is it different species than poa?

[JSPayne]

Tell Tiger to hit the greens first, before he starts complaining. I didn't get to watch the entire telecast, but the half dozen holes I did watch when they showed Tiger, he missed at least half the greens and was constantly putting out of & through the collar/approach. He was there so much he probably thought those were the greens.....hence his misplaced insult about the turf.

Complain all you want.....the point of a golf tournament is that everyone plays on the same course in nearly the same exact conditions. So every putted on the same greens, even if they were "awful".....just like blaming a bad hand in poker on the dealer, I guess the best excuse for a bad day of putting is to blame it on the super (and yes, "awful greens" is an indirect insult to the super and his crew)

[Sven Nilsen]

Nobilo made a great point comparing Woods' reaction to how Paul Casey discussed the course conditions after his rounds.  He noted how Gary Player once complained about course conditions, and then realized he would be better off thinking about how to play the course rather than laying the groundwork for doubt.  Casey was talking about how he planned to get around tomorrow, Woods was whining about the course.  Be interesting to see whose attitude pays of over the next three days.

[Sean Leary]

Fast bumpy poa annua greens are just brutal. They seemed OK in the morning but in the afternoon they were not good. These are not the same as other venues that have poa.

[Sven Nilsen]

Tell Tiger to hit the greens first, before he starts complaining.

Tiger hit greens 1 to 10, missed 11 to 15, not sure about 16-18, not too bad on that course today.

[Zack Molnar]

I think a lot had to to do with the fact that he played in the afternoon, so the greens had grown more than when the morning players teed off. I talked to my friend who teed off in the morning tee times, and he said he went out on the putting green late this afternoon, and he said they were significantly bumpier than when he played this morning. So, while I think Tiger is wrong to blame the course, he isnt the only one to complain about the poa on the greens over the many years.
Does anyone know when they last redid the greens at Pebble?

[Matt Day]

the greens looked like the last remnants of bent grass were struggling?

[jeffwarne]

the greens looked like the last remnants of bent grass were struggling?

Am I the only one who thinks the nonsense the USGA goes through regarding maintenance and setup is excessive?
I.e. alot of USGA guys are justifying their existence.
Certainly a look at the leaderboard doesn't reveal much separation from great players to not so great.
I'm reminded of Shinny in 2004 where no one could hit/hold a green and a winner was crowned who happened to make a few more random putts than the the rest of the field.
It just seems the best players aren't allowed to separate themselves.
I do like most of the changes to the couse-just let the super maintain the course.

That said, I am enjoying watching the course and tournament.
and the fact that Mike Davis is worshiped for doing a good job(and he does) shows how bad the previous setups were


by the way fast and bumpy is a terrible combination, but most people are so enamored with fast they ignore the bumpy (unless they're the best players in the world)

[Tim Gavrich]

I wonder whether the 5th green rolled appreciably better than the other 17 throughout the day.  It certainly looked better than all the others.  The lines of poa annua on some of the greens looked like huge varicose veins, and thanks to the slow-motion camera work, Tiger's concerns were borne out numerous times for all viewers to see.

Frankly, I am inclined to trust Tiger's judgment on the matter of the greens.  Sure they're the same for everybody, but if the USGA really wishes to "identify the best player," then bumpy, lightning-fast greens are going to get in the way of that.  Besides, Tiger has played Pebble so many times and won there by 15 that I am taking his criticism as serious and not whining.

[Steve Salmen]

Jeff,

To clarify,  are you saying that Retief was an unworthy champion in 04 because of the conditions?  If so I would disagree because he had already won the championship three years earlier (again with a goofy green) and ended Sunday's round with 6 consecutive 1 putts.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,

To clarify,  are you saying that Retief was an unworthy champion in 04 because of the conditions?  If so I would disagree because he had already won the championship three years earlier (again with a goofy green) and ended Sunday's round with 6 consecutive 1 putts.

unworthy would be too strong a word and unfair to Retief.
I was there all 7 days of the 04 Open. Goofy setup and by the last day it was a crapshoot with all balls rolling through the greens randomly ending up in various places.
Congrats to the mental fortitude of Goosen-it's just a shame he wasn't allowed to win by getting reasonable results from quality shots.
Somebody had to win. he got it done
I wasn't at Southern Hills so it would be unfair to comment.

Let's see what happens this week-I am enjoying watching it.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I wonder whether the 5th green rolled appreciably better than the other 17 throughout the day.  It certainly looked better than all the others.  The lines of poa annua on some of the greens looked like huge varicose veins, and thanks to the slow-motion camera work, Tiger's concerns were borne out numerous times for all viewers to see.

Frankly, I am inclined to trust Tiger's judgment on the matter of the greens.  Sure they're the same for everybody, but if the USGA really wishes to "identify the best player," then bumpy, lightning-fast greens are going to get in the way of that.  Besides, Tiger has played Pebble so many times and won there by 15 that I am taking his criticism as serious and not whining.

Tim,
  The 5th green was new prior to the 2000 Open. It was redesigned by Nicklaus, so it would be logical that the poa populations would be much less.

[Alex Miller]

I'll echo those who have mentioned it thus far. The broadcast makes them look much spottier than they are and in person they look immaculate. I am surprised Tiger is using them as a crutch for his poor putting which has been a problem of his for a while now. Hopefully he putts lights out tomorrow and eats his words

[Wade Whitehead]

Bumpy, unpredictable greens never help a good putt.  They can, and sometimes do, help a bad one.  The better putter a player is, the more he'll be penalized by the condition.

Whether or not it's how golf was meant to be played (and it may well be), it's what Tiger's talking about.

WW

[Martin Toal]

The players currently leading include some pretty good players, just not many Americans. Maybe that is the problem.

Paul Casey, Luke Donald, Ian Poulter, Graeme McDowell, Mike Weir and KJ Choi are all seasoned winners, and Cabrera Bello and Ishikawa are up and coming young players. At least a few of them are good putters too. Dismissing these players as average players benefitting from poor conditions sounds a lot like sour grapes. Anyhow, good players should be able to putt on bad greens too.

[Sean_A]

These guys are pros and get paid to play the course as they find it.  Conditions NEVER determine the champion golfer, but they sure can eliminate a few from the race. 

Ciao

[Cristian]

Is this not just a question of the poa grass growing faster than the bent during the course of the day (or vice versa), creating different graass heights within the green in the afternoon?

[Jon Wiggett]

I think Sean got it spot on. We are only on the first day and most players are still in with a chance of winning. I think this is a case of Tiger moaning because he played badly instead of him accepting that it just doesn't always go to plan. Is this a case of the same old Tiger from the last few years making himself heard?

Jon

[Tom Birkert]

I only saw the first half of Tiger's round, but I thought he played very well indeed.

He was hitting some very good shots, conceivably could have started with 3 birdies (3 missed putts of short to medium length) and his swing looked better - particularly his wrist position at the top of his backswing.

I believe he hit a lot of greens in regulation, so I don't think this is a case of sour grapes.

The greens at Pebble have been the reason he didn't play in the Crosby Clambake recently - that and the duration of the rounds.

In HD on a big television, it was clear that the ball was not rolling smoothly on the greens.

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