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John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
On the US Open Web Site is a video of David Fay explaining a Local Rule on the 18th.

http://www.usopen.com/en_US/video/index.html

then check out the David Fay video.

The Local Rule more or less allows the players to avoid making a drop in the bunker, if they hit it over the sea wall,  on the grounds they might get a "fried egg" lie. According to the Local Rule the ball can be played from allocated dropping zones on the grass next to the bunkers.
 
David Fay manages to avoid using the word "unfair" but comes up with descriptions for the plight of the players, if they had to do a drop in the sand, as "not so good" and "abnormal".

A number of questions immediately spring to mind.

1. Fried egg? so what? 
2. Why not just make the wall out of bounds?
3. Why not just grass over the bunker?

What springs to mind of the GCA Discussion Group?



Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: David Fay On A Local Rule At The 18th Hole US Open Pebble Beach
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2010, 10:32:48 AM »
That does seem like pandering to me, considering that the most likely shots to go over the wall are attempts to go for the green in two.

If someone yanked their third shot into the water, they could always play under stroke and distance ... not an unrealistic option when they have a wedge in their hands.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: David Fay On A Local Rule At The 18th Hole US Open Pebble Beach
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2010, 10:45:28 AM »
I thought the rules precluded you from taking a penalty drop IN a bunker unless you were taking an unplayable lie from IN the bunker already...I should know this, but only think it...

Phil_the_Author

Re: David Fay On A Local Rule At The 18th Hole US Open Pebble Beach
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2010, 10:46:36 AM »
Considering the number of "drop zones" that one finds on courses used during PGA events every week, this doesn't surprise me, nor do i have a problem with it as an "option" since it is equitably allowed/enforced.

A number of weeks back there was the issue of a free drop a player asked for (whose name escapes me at this moment) during the WGC match-play championship whose ball was clearly unearly unplayable in the sand and bush yet he was given this free drop because he claimed that the scoreboard he would have to hit over (a totally impossible play) would be in his way if he attempted it. Even his opponent, the ever-endearing Sergio Garcia, thought this to be ridiculas, yet the rule is the rule.

In this case a rule has been established and rather than jumping on the USGA's attempt to be fair to all (in their mind's anyway), remember, it was the player will put it where it will end up. He always has the option of going down there and playing it...

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: David Fay On A Local Rule At The 18th Hole US Open Pebble Beach
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2010, 11:16:00 AM »
Not saying this is the case here, but a number of these drop area rules are to speed up play.  Rather than have the players grinding over where to drop the ball and calling in an official, it is easier to just offer the option of a drop area so that everything can move along. The ultimate outcome is not usually too different anyway. The fried-egg explanation is just rationalization for the decision.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Dale Jackson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: David Fay On A Local Rule At The 18th Hole US Open Pebble Beach
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 11:20:47 AM »
I thought the rules precluded you from taking a penalty drop IN a bunker unless you were taking an unplayable lie from IN the bunker already...I should know this, but only think it...

Jim, there are a number of circumstances when a player could drop in a bunker, although, practically speaking, it is unlikely to happen.

As for the drop areas, I believe they are also used during the Crosby (sorry, still can't get away from the name!) - JVB will know for sure.
I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: David Fay On A Local Rule At The 18th Hole US Open Pebble Beach
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 01:29:24 PM »
I think Michael is correct.

I was at a practice round at The Masters in 2005 and happened upon a rules official meeting on the 1st green.  It was amazing to snoop in on that meeting...

The head guy told the officials to "keep it moving" and don't worry about trying to find a spot to drop under TIO rules - try to get the players to use the drop zones wherever possible.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: David Fay On A Local Rule At The 18th Hole US Open Pebble Beach
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2010, 07:03:37 PM »
Someone reported they topped all the bunkers with 2 inches of fluffy white stuff. In the old days there was so little sand, you didn't have to worry about it. If this is the justification to make this a local rule for this competition, it seems acceptable to me.

Maybe they want to get these guys going for it in two? 
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Zack Molnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: David Fay On A Local Rule At The 18th Hole US Open Pebble Beach
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2010, 10:40:26 PM »
I think that it is certainly a measure to speed up play, and with everyone saying how hard the course is that will certainly be an issue. I do not see why this would be a bad decision on the part of the USGA, as the rule is equally enforced across all people. Plus, it could get people to try and go for the green in two, knowing they will be able to drop at a reasonable location. Certainly could make for exciting finishes as people try and make a last ditch effort to make the cut or try and make back up a couple shots that were lost out on the course.

Jim Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: David Fay On A Local Rule At The 18th Hole US Open Pebble Beach
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2010, 10:47:16 PM »
This is not unusual. It has been done before. Remeber that the player is already taking a penalty shot for the drop from the hazard, and dropping in a bunker may constitute a double penalty, which is not the intent of the rule.

The counter argument is that if a ball lies unplayable in a bunnker, the relief options are similar to a lateral hazard and the ball may be dropped in the bunker under penalty of one shot. That ball may plug. But the player also has the option of returning to the spot from which the ball was last played outside of the bunker, so he has the opportunity to avoid the double penalty.

You can be assured that the USGA has not made this decision with the intent of incentivising players to go for the green in two, or to speed up play. It is a logical response to a fairly unusual situation which has been used before. I played a tournament at one of the courses at PGA west where this local rule was in effect.

"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

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