[Keith OHalloran]

ESPN has published a list of its 50 hardest courses. The highest I have played on this list is Bethpage Black. I am currently a shaky 8 handicap, and I feel like the black course is just too hard to enjoy on a regular basis. I was wondering if anyone feels like any of these highly ranked courses are actually playable on a daily basis.

Also, I personally am surprised that Oak Hill East was not on this list, I found that course very difficult as well, especially if you hit above the holes.



1. THE OCEAN COURSE | Kiawah Island, S.C.
 
2. THE INTERNATIONAL | Bolton, Mass.
 
3. KOOLAU | Kaneohe, Hawaii (Oahu)
 
4. PGA WEST/STADIUM | La Quinta, Calif.
 
5. OAKMONT | Oakmont, Pa.
 
6. BETHPAGE/BLACK | Farmingdale, N.Y.
 
7. TOT HILL FARM | Asheboro, N.C.
 
8. WHISTLING STRAITS/STRAITS | Haven, Wis.
 
9. PINE VALLEY | Pine Valley, N.J.
 
10. TOBACCO ROAD | Sanford, N.C.
 
11. WINGED FOOT/WEST | Mamaroneck, N.Y.
 
12. MEDALIST | Hobe Sound, Fla.
 
13. DESERT MOUNTAIN/RENEGADE | Scottsdale, Ariz.
 
14. TPC SAWGRASS/PLAYERS | Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla.
 
15. HALLBROOK | Leawood, Kan.
 
16. ROYAL NEW KENT | Providence Forge, Va.
 
17. BLACKWOLF RUN/RIVER | Kohler, Wis.
 
18. GRAND TRAVERSE/BEAR | Acme, Mich.
 
19. OAK TREE NATIONAL | Edmond, Okla.
 
20. CONCORD/MONSTER | Kiamesha Lake, N.Y.
 
21. WOLF RUN | Zionsville, Ind.
 
22. SILVER LAKES | Glencoe, Ala.
 
23. BUTLER NATIONAL | Oak Brook, Ill.
 
24. SPYGLASS HILL | Pebble Beach, Calif.
 
25. PURGATORY | Noblesville, Ind.
 
SECOND 25
26. P.B. DYE | Ijamsville, Md.
 
27. THE SHOALS/FIGHTING JOE | Muscle Shoals, Ala.
 
28. OLD MARSH | Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.
 
29. ROCHELLE RANCH | Rawlins, Wyo.
 
30. BULL VALLEY | Woodstock, Ill.
 
31. WOLF CREEK | Mesquite, Nev.
 
32. PINEHURST/No. 2 | Pinehurst, N.C.
 
33. LA PURISIMA | Lompoc, Calif.
 
34. LOBLOLLY | Hobe Sound, Fla.
 
35. BAYONET | Seaside, Calif.
 
36. CRYSTAL SPRINGS | Hamburg, N.J.
 
37. LEGENDS/MOORLAND | Myrtle Beach, S.C.
 
38. DIAMANTE | Hot Springs Village, Ark.
 
39. ROSS BRIDGE | Hoover, Ala.
 
40. STONE HARBOR | Cape May Court House, N.J.
 
41. MEDINAH/No. 3 | Medinah, Ill.
 
42. COLBERT HILLS | Manhattan, Kan.
 
43. THE SHATTUCK | Jaffrey, N.H.
 
44. YALE | New Haven, Conn.
 
45. MONTOUR HEIGHTS | Coraopolis, Pa.
 
46. THUNDERHILL | Madison, Ohio
 
47. ORONOQUE | Stratford, Conn.
 
48. TEAL WING | Hayward, Wis.
 
49. MOOSE RUN/CREEK | Fort Richardson, Alaska
 
50. FURNACE CREEK | Death Valley, Calif.
 

[Tom_Doak]

I am glad not to have any courses on their list.  But, clearly, they can't get on Sebonack.

[JLahrman]

I played Purgatory awhile back, I was probably about a 5 or 6 at the time.  I actually enjoyed the course.  I played it at about 7,300 yards, but it was the middle of summer and was playing pretty fast.  I was expecting a gimmicky course due to the name and the length, but I thought it had a lot of good holes.  It was long but the holes were fair.

[jonathan_becker]

I think that #7 and #10 have no business being on this list.  #46 is harder than the both of those combined.

[Alex Miller]

Among these I've played Ko'olau, PGA West Stadium, Wolf Creek, and La Purisima.

Ko'olau has too many forced carries for the average golfer and is wet year round.

PGA West is fun from the right tees and with no wind. I was lucky to play it in little wind and hit all 9 greens on the front!

Wolf Creek is really hard and could be a lot higher. By far the toughest 6,100 yard course I've ever played from the blue tees.

La Purisima is a fun and interesting track. While difficult, I think it's playable on a daily basis. I'm playing there next week.

[Ronald Montesano]

I think that Strantz would be pissed to find two of his courses on this list.

[Keith OHalloran]

Tom Doak, I have never been foolish enough to try Sebonack from the championship tees, but even from the tees I have played, it could make the list.
Also, can you shed some light onto the thought process of design in regard to difficulty? Does the client have as much, or more, influence on the difficulty than the land itself?

[Rob Miller]

I played Koolau last year.  While challenging with some tight fairways and approaches I don't believe it is one of the most difficult courses in the U.S.  If you can't put the ball in the air, you'd be in trouble.  If you add Oakmont greens, then it would get there.  It has an slope of 152(!) from the back tees but I believe it is less of a monster than it was a few years ago.  That being said, I loved the setting.  It's worth a play for that alone.

I'm also surprised seeing the River course at #17 and PB Dye at #26.  

[CJ Carder]

I think that Strantz would be pissed to find two of his courses on this list.

Three actually - Tot Hill Farm, Tobacco Road, and Royal New Kent.  The fact that RNK is ranked lower than either of those is a joke, especially given the condition they keep the course in these days - probably 50% of the green surface area is unpinnable with those speeds. 

Further, who decided PB Dye in Ijamsville, MD was a difficult course? 

And, is it me, or is that just an odd collection of courses?  Just the fact that Pinehurst #2 is ranked #32 makes me laugh.  And it's probably the only list ever created where the Legends-Moorland course and Pine Valley are both on it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

When they say "hardest" I think you have to differentiate between courses where you can take a 12 on one hole and courses that are relentlessly difficult to make a par.

Fenway is hard and ranks up there with Winged Foot and Quaker Ridge.

Bayonne is hard, but, not in the same light.
At Bayonne, you can easily take a 12, but, par may not be so difficult.

I've only played 14 of the 50.

I would also ask, "hardest" for whom ?

The PGA Tour Pro, Nationwide Pro,  Pro, College scholarship golfer, good amateur, average amateur, poor amateur, or all of the above ?

Doesn't length ALWAYS equate to difficulty ?

No you say ?

From the back tees, what's the shortest hard course on that 50 list and what's the yardage.

Does an abundance of water equate to difficulty ?

What happens when you combine length with water ?

Do you get a course that no one wants to play ?

[cary lichtenstein]

I thought Tobacco Rd was easy, shot 70 my one and only time there. Loved it forever.

[Buck Wolter]

I have a friend who just joined Old Hickory (PB Dye) near St Louis and was a 4 index at his old course. His goal this summer is to break 80 at 73.8/140 from  6800 yards.

[Wade Whitehead]

ESPN's never played Ballyhack.

WW

[Tom Yost]

Wonder what makes Furnace Creek hard?  The possibility of heat stroke? Dehydration?  

[CJ Carder]

Doesn't length ALWAYS equate to difficulty ?

No you say ?

From the back tees, what's the shortest hard course on that 50 list and what's the yardage.

Tobacco Road from the back tees is 6554 with a slope of 150 and rating of 73.2
Tot Hill Farm from the back tees is 6543 with slope of 138 and rating of 72.5

[Phil_the_Author]

Keith,

With over 400 rounds on the Black I would disagree with your opinion, "The highest I have played on this list is Bethpage Black. I am currently a shaky 8 handicap, and I feel like the black course is just too hard to enjoy on a regular basis. I was wondering if anyone feels like any of these highly ranked courses are actually playable on a daily basis..."

I have always found it electrifying, stimulating, energizing and fun... Of course, as most of these rounds came in my youth when Bethpage was really the only available course that I could afford (from 1967-early 1980's it was from $5-7 per round. Pull cart an extra 1.50) to expend my passion for the game on, that may explain it. Still, I wish I could play it far more often than the once-a-year trip I make... By the way, two weeks from now I'll be able to give my opinion on the "softened green" of #15...

[Bill Seitz]

I've played Purgatory and the PGA Stadium Course, both from the tips.  I've at least broken 40 for nine holes on each course (39 on the front at PGA West, 38 on the back at Purgatory). 

Compared to those two, honestly, the most difficult course I've ever played is Purdue University's Kampen Course from the tips.  It's always tough, especially at 7,450 from the back tees.  But I played it a week and half before the NCAA Championships a few years ago, and under those conditions, I've never played a course anywhere near as difficult.  The first cut of rough was four inches.  8-10 yards in, it was 7-8 inches deep.  I lost a ball in the rough, dropped one, hit it ten yards, and almost lost that one.  In the NCAA's, the second player to hit on the first day hit one five yards off the first fairway.  Three players, two spotters, and five minutes of looking later, he had to go back and re-tee. 

[Doug Bolls]

Koolau is vary hard because it's narrow and you can't recover from a wayward shot - off the fairway and it's a lost ball.
I loved playing Stadium West - the big, deep bunkers are what makes it so tough - very difficult to hit the ball 20 feet up a steep wall.
Bethpage Black just beat me up with it's length - I am a bogey golfer and the length required to get onto the greens is just very demanding.
Pine Vallley - I have not played it, but I walked it during a Crump Cup - I realized that it was designed to test your game and beat you up - I would have to put it very close to the top of this list.  There is no way I could score here.
I don't think the Mike Stranz courses belong here - I found all three of them playable and fair - a little quirky I agree, but certainly not all that difficult.
The most difficult on my list is Cottonwood Valley in Hutchison, KS - a Nick Faldo creation of exceptional difficulty.  Long, punishing, hit a good shot and it's in the crap.  I just didn't know where to aim and hit a shot that would be rewarded - a mystery from the first hole.

[Tim Gavrich]

I can't imagine they compiled that list strictly with the lower-handicapper in mind.  Having played both THF and TR, I find neither course to be particularly difficult.  Same goes for Moorland.  Yale is tough, but not THAT tough, IMO.  Pinehurst No.2 is easily the hardest golf course of the ones I've played on that list.  My surprise second-place is Oronoque.  That place is a bowling alley draped in green.  For me:

1. Pinehurst No. 2
2. Oronoque
3. Yale
4. Moorland
5. Tot Hill Farm
6. Tobacco Road

For the record, I'd put Pawleys Plantation between Oronoque and Pinehurst No. 2 on my personal list.

[Zack Molnar]

I think a large part of their determination of the 'hardest' golf course was the slope and rating of the back tees at the specified course. The ocean course has a ridiculous 78 rating with a 155 slope, and they have tees that can take the course to almost 7800 yards, which would be downright unplayable for all but the best tour pros. Add in the constant wind factor there, and the course is a constant brute, but I feel that the course is very fair, and have played it many times.

Pat Mucci,
I think that length is a large part of difficulty. If one can not reach the green in regulation, then the odds of making a par are severely decreased. So, one can make a course difficult simply by making the greens unreachable even for the longest hitters. Adding in forced carries, water hazards, etc. simply adds to this level of difficulty. If you make the course too difficult, people will simply not return to play it. Some people like to play challenging courses just to say they have played them, get their butt kicked and never return again.

[John Moore II]

I think that #7 and #10 have no business being on this list. 

#49 doesn't belong either. What makes Tobacco Road so hard? Other than the time I played with Ed Getka where the temps were hovering in the mid-40's and I hadn't played golf in about 3 months, I have never shot over 80, and I have never played worth crap. The last pro-am they had, the winner shot 65, and none of the really good Section professionals were at the event. The way that course is set up on a day to day basis is not hard. Now, they firm up those greens and run them at about 11-12 speeds, well, thats a different story. But the way it is set up, that course is not hard. A good player should be at least 4 under on the par 5's and 17 is an almost given birdie. So, thats about 5 under and the rest of the holes aren't that hard.

Tot Hill Farm is a little different, they can put out some really jacked up pins, but for the most part, the hardest holes out there are 9 and 10, and 10 is only hard if played from the tees right behind #9 green where you have to hit across the road. Other than that, whats so hard? I think I shot 75 or 76 and didn't play that great.

Moose Run, same deal. Yeah, its 7600 or so yards long (might be 7800, I don't remember) but it really doesn't feel that long. And the greens are all very soft because of the short growing season. Now if you intend to putt everything out exactly according to the rules, I could see someone hitting every green in regulation and shooting over 100 because the greens are in poor shape, at least they were when I was there, and that was in late June. But as far as the actual layout goes and the green complexes, its not a difficult course. And it doesn't have the potential for big numbers for the most part; Tobacco Road and Tot Hill Farm do have those potentials, TR moreso.

Oh, and to answer one of the original questions, yes, all three of the courses that I listed above are playable on a daily basis.

[Rob Miller]

From Golf Digest:

10. TOBACCO ROAD GOLF CLUB
SANFORD / N.C. / 6,554 YARDS / PAR 71
This is Mike Strantz's version of Pine Valley, as seen through a funhouse mirror. Bunkers become craters, greens become sinkholes. The sand hills are taller and more eroded, the pits are steeper and deeper. Some greens are three times as wide as they are deep, and others are twice as long as they are wide. What's not distorted is that there are five blind shots at Tobacco Road. That makes it cotton-pickin' hard.

[Alex Miller]

As I suspected this is a Golf Digest piece that I saw a few years ago.
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/golf-courses/2007-03/gd50toughestcourses

[John Moore II]

From Golf Digest:

10. TOBACCO ROAD GOLF CLUB
SANFORD / N.C. / 6,554 YARDS / PAR 71
This is Mike Strantz's version of Pine Valley, as seen through a funhouse mirror. Bunkers become craters, greens become sinkholes. The sand hills are taller and more eroded, the pits are steeper and deeper. Some greens are three times as wide as they are deep, and others are twice as long as they are wide. What's not distorted is that there are five blind shots at Tobacco Road. That makes it cotton-pickin' hard.

There are more than 5 blind shots at Tobacco Road. Depending on how you play a hole, there can be 10 or more blind shots out there. But they are not hard. You can see the proper place to aim every time. Why do people think "blind" shots are so hard? Find a patch of green grass and aim there, I promise you'll be safe every time; how difficult is that? Why do you need to see perfectly the 80 yard wide (actually wider than that in some places, the landing area for the second shot on #1 is 95 steps wide; I stepped it off while I was waiting to play through a group) field in front of you to know its there? Pathetic. Oh, and where are the "sinkhole" greens? I haven't seen any of those. Now, there are some bunkers like craters, but sinkhole greens? Give me a break. Anyone who has every played Tobacco Road knows that little Gold Digest write-up there is a bad joke.

[Sean_A]

I reckon this list must be from an average golfer's PoV, but then forward tees should be the measure used.  I can see where an 18 capper would find The Road difficult.  Part of this difficulty is false espectations of relative ease due to the short yardage - I love this aspect of design.  There are an awful lot of opportunities to finish with ball in pocket.  For me, Oakland Hills or The Bear may be the toughest American courses I have played.  They are hard no matter which tees I play and neither are courses I care for.  Kiawah I didn't find overly difficult, but like a links it relies on wind to create much of the problem.  That said, I can see where an 18 capper would find it difficult.  Nearly every hole has an opportunity not to finish.  I watched an 18 capper struggle mightily around this place in good weather so...The course on the list which impresses me most is Pinehurst.  There are virtually nno opportunities to finish in pocket yet I think good, bad and indifferent golfers find the course tough.  This is its most endearing quality.  To be a championship course which is PLAYABLE (playable can still be diffiicult) for all is a remarkable feat to pull off.

Ciao

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()