[Charlie Goerges]

All the images in this post are from the New York Public Library. This first bunch are just random photos that I thought were interesting.

Baltusrol:


Marion/Merion:


La Moye:


Riviera:


NGLA:


Shinnecock:


Turnberry:


Yale:



The rest are from cigarette packs. This first bunch are a series of 25 featuring great courses of the British Isles.




















































This last bunch is from a set of Cigarette packs featuring a hole-by-hole match at St. Andrews Old. Only one of the three competitors is included below.

[jonathan_becker]

WOW.  Thanks, Charlie.

The Riviera photo is....I don't even know what to say!!  The growth over the years is amazing.

[Joe Bausch]

VERY good stuff CG!

[Jamie Barber]

funnily enough I've been on the lookout for those Player cigarette ones, having recently picked up 3 of them

Here's a couple of photos from my home course (Prince's), the original drive in by the then prime minister and an early one of the club house (which still stands but is in ruins after a fire in 2008)

[Colin Sheehan]

Regarding the image of National's Redan Hole, I have a hunch that's the Bobby Jones putting out at the Walker Cup in 1922. Would anyone out there at least be able to confirm it was the Walker Cup? Or, I suppose, would anyone out there be able to propose any details from that image? I thank you for the help.

[Mike Cirba]

What a terrific set of historic images...thanks for sharing, Charlie!

[Charlie Goerges]

Regarding the image of National's Redan Hole, I have a hunch that's the Bobby Jones putting out at the Walker Cup in 1922. Would anyone out there at least be able to confirm it was the Walker Cup? Or, I suppose, would anyone out there be able to propose any details from that image? I thank you for the help.

Colin, if you google the New York Public Library and search their digital archives for the image or search for "golf" and you'll find it eventually. There should be a bit of meta data in the entry for the image. That meta data may give you the answer or may give you a few clues.

Thanks all and you're welcome.

[Rob Miller]

Great post.  Thanks for sharing. 

I love the Riviera photo.  The woman in the photo looks like she was dragged onto the course and the caddy is thinking something along the lines of 'come on hotshot, hit the ball already'.  Good stuff. 

[Dan Kelly]

All the images in this post are from the New York Public Library. This first bunch are just random photos that I thought were interesting.

Great, great stuff. Thanks.

One extremely minor point, raised again here:

Were golf flags ever triangular -- or were triangular flags merely figments of art directors' imaginations, then as now?

[James Bennett]

Charlie

excellent.

The merion hole - it looks a little like merion West to me, given the bunkering style.

The Moortown layout - the multiple tees on 4 (par 3) and 5 (par 4) are still there, exactly as shown.  However, there are other changes given the new 6 and 7 holes, and the elimination of what is shown as 12 and 13, with 14 played as a par 4 down part of 13 and 14 as shown.

And, the Princes layout reminded me of trekking across sandhills looking for the old hole that crossed the Dune, with Tony Muldoon in 2006.

James B

[Bill_McBride]

Charlie

excellent.

The merion hole - it looks a little like merion West to me, given the bunkering style.

The Moortown layout - the multiple tees on 4 (par 3) and 5 (par 4) are still there, exactly as shown.  However, there are other changes given the new 6 and 7 holes, and the elimination of what is shown as 12 and 13, with 14 played as a par 4 down part of 13 and 14 as shown.

And, the Princes layout reminded me of trekking across sandhills looking for the old hole that crossed the Dune, with Tony Muldoon in 2006.

James B

The old NLE hole at Princes, was that #11 par 5?  I have to get out my Sarazen autobiography, he talks about the 1932 Open there in great detail.  He had great success flogging a brassie across the dune and making birdie or eagle once I think.  I need to read it before we play Princes in about three weeks!

[Mark Pearce]

I guess I missed this brilliant thread when I was on holiday in August.  My thanks to Scott Warren for bringing it to my attantion.

Charlie, have you got a date for those Players Cigarette cards?  Any idea how accurate they are?  The layout of The Northumberland (my home club) is different in some respects to what the received wisdom says the course was like before some more recent changes.  Sadly we don't have any decent records of the changes that were made.

[Emil Weber]

Where or what is La Moye? Never heard of the place 

Great photies, thanks!

[Charlie Goerges]

Mark, I'll have to check and see if there is a date associated with the cards.

Emil, I'm not really sure on La Moye. Maybe someone can fill us in.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I guess I missed this brilliant thread when I was on holiday in August.  My thanks to Scott Warren for bringing it to my attantion.

Charlie, have you got a date for those Players Cigarette cards?  Any idea how accurate they are?  The layout of The Northumberland (my home club) is different in some respects to what the received wisdom says the course was like before some more recent changes.  Sadly we don't have any decent records of the changes that were made.

Mark,

I recall seeing the Portmarnock card on sale on eBay some time ago; the seller had 1936 as the date of the card. I don't know how accurate this info is.

Emil,

La Moye is on Jersey (where Harry Vardon was born) in the Channel Islands. The Jersey Open used to be a regular tournament there.

[Peter Pallotta]

Ah, Charlie - terrific, thanks much.

There's yet another sign of the decline of western civilization - back then, a smoker got pictures of the Open rota and a tour of St. Andrews; today, I'm lucky if I get a cartoon camel wearing a cardigan and a pin-wheel hat.

It's really time I quit smoking...

Peter 

[James Boon]

Charlie,

Great post, and I too need to thank Mr Warren for bringing it to my attention!

Its interesting how seeing these plans has had me scrambling for history books to check on things. A few comments on the cigarette card plans:

Burnham & Berrow:
- I never realised that the 4th at Burnham was inland as part of Colts layout (running down what is now the 6th on the Channel nine by the looks of it). But it appears that Colt suggested this hole move out towards the coast to form a longer par 5 in his report of 1913, but it wasnt actually implemented till 1936.
- The clubs history book "Between the Church and Lighthouse" has this as the 1923 layout.
- I'm not seeing these as acurate survey drawings, so a little artistsic licence perhaps, however its interesting to see a bunker on the 1st, one of my favourite bunkerless hole.
- The 10th appears as quite a significant dogleg, and missing the dunes as sketched. I'veoften wondered if the hole played further to the left, avoiding a large blind carry over the dune?

Notts (Hollinwell)
- Pretty much the current layout, but shows the old 10th tee behind the 9th green.
- As I said, I'm not putting too much faith in the bunkers shown, but it appears the large flat grassy hollow on the 15th used to be a big bunker.
- 1, 2 and 3 on far side of entrance road shown, so it Tom Williamsons post 1912 layout.

Royal Portrush
- This layout appears pretty close to as existing but with the 1st and 18th as shown now gone, the current clubhouse between the 2nd and 3rd as shown, and I'm assuming the current 7th and 8th as completly new holes.
- The course shown on the card appears to be the Colt course of opened in July 1933?
- The clubs history confirms this: " 1 Nov 46, ... including the proposed erection of a school on the site of the 18th green within the next few months"
- To the right of the 14th is annotated "War Hollow", what is now part of the Valley course I assume. Any ideas what is meant by this?

Walton Heath (Old)
- It looks like the current 5th is a combination of the 5th and 6th as shown?
- Quite a bit of other rearrangement at the far end from what is shown, and no sign of the current short 17th.

Cooden Beach
- Where!?! All these well known courses and then this one sneeks in? I think its a Willie Park Jnr. course but thats about all I can find?

Based on the above, the cards could be from between 1933 and 1936???

Cheers,

James

[Charlie Goerges]

I forgot to mention that the backs of the cards feature a course profile. Some of these contain significant dates etc for dedicated researchers.

The link below should take to you to the results of a search that lets you see the images.

http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchresult.cfm?keyword=golf+cigarette&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

[Sean_A]

Charlie,

Great post, and I too need to thank Mr Warren for bringing it to my attention!

Its interesting how seeing these plans has had me scrambling for history books to check on things. A few comments on the cigarette card plans:

Burnham & Berrow:
- I never realised that the 4th at Burnham was inland as part of Colts layout (running down what is now the 6th on the Channel nine by the looks of it). But it appears that Colt suggested this hole move out towards the coast to form a longer par 5 in his report of 1913, but it wasnt actually implemented till 1936.
- The clubs history book "Between the Church and Lighthouse" has this as the 1923 layout.
- I'm not seeing these as acurate survey drawings, so a little artistsic licence perhaps, however its interesting to see a bunker on the 1st, one of my favourite bunkerless hole.
- The 10th appears as quite a significant dogleg, and missing the dunes as sketched. I'veoften wondered if the hole played further to the left, avoiding a large blind carry over the dune?

Notts (Hollinwell)
- Pretty much the current layout, but shows the old 10th tee behind the 9th green.
- As I said, I'm not putting too much faith in the bunkers shown, but it appears the large flat grassy hollow on the 15th used to be a big bunker.
- 1, 2 and 3 on far side of entrance road shown, so it Tom Williamsons post 1912 layout.

Royal Portrush
- This layout appears pretty close to as existing but with the 1st and 18th as shown now gone, the current clubhouse between the 2nd and 3rd as shown, and I'm assuming the current 7th and 8th as completly new holes.
- The course shown on the card appears to be the Colt course of opened in July 1933?
- The clubs history confirms this: " 1 Nov 46, ... including the proposed erection of a school on the site of the 18th green within the next few months"
- To the right of the 14th is annotated "War Hollow", what is now part of the Valley course I assume. Any ideas what is meant by this?

Walton Heath (Old)
- It looks like the current 5th is a combination of the 5th and 6th as shown?
- Quite a bit of other rearrangement at the far end from what is shown, and no sign of the current short 17th.

Cooden Beach
- Where!?! All these well known courses and then this one sneeks in? I think its a Willie Park Jnr. course but thats about all I can find?

Based on the above, the cards could be from between 1933 and 1936???

Cheers,

James

Boony

Didn't you read my piece - tee hee - that boring eh.  

Yes, I knew the 4th routed on the inside of the dune until the current 4th fairway (newly formed land) was dry enough for golf.  

The 10th is interesting.  I know the hole used to play more of a dogleg, but I think the illustration shows the leg as too severe.

Notice the 7th and 8th.  #8 green isn't yet moved under #9 tee.  #7 green is too far left and look at the tee for #8 - essentially where the green is today.

#15 has what I bet is the kitchen as full of sand and bunkers guarding the right side of the green - that is very different as to now.  

The one thing which has always puzzled me is the 14th green.  This was meant to be played at from more the angle along #15, but I could never figure out how this could ever be.  The ciggy pack doesn't help either as its #s 12-14 are long gone to housing.  



Charlie - these are great fun to look at - cheers.

Ciao

[Paul_Turner]

Charlie

These are fascinating, thanks so much!  I live in NYC...hope I can trawl through their golf image archives at some time.

James

Re: Portrush: The current 8th and 9th were added in about 1938-9.  The old club house in the town had been used for about 50 years prior to this and the club had long wanted to move- it was too small and the town was encroaching. 

They were going to build a new clubhouse by the current 17th green but decided instead to move into the current building, which was then the Holyrood Hotel, and then convert it into a clubhouse.

[James Boon]

Sean,

Sometimes the words just don't seem to stick in there once I've read them. That'll be the drink I assume?  I new the hole played in land, I just hadn't realised it had taken so long for Colts suggestions to be implemented.

I want to take some of these as diagramtic but can't help but thinking what if it was really like they've shown it? Not aerial photos but fascinating none the less!

Paul,

Cheers for the info on Royal Portrush. I've got the history book, but its not a great format for architectural history.

Lastly,

Cooden Beach anyone? If these cards are from the mid 30's, was this course held in higher regard back then to feature on these cards?

Cheers,

James

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