Sahara better at Old Mac than NGLA

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dead tree in play trumps windmill out of play.

Anthony,

I'm concerned that you've been drinking too much of that Bandon Cool-Aid.

Kevin,

Anyone who's noticed the windows and dents on the Windmill can attest to the windmill being IN-play.

Especially when the hole is cut on the far left of the green.

  Anthony

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

By clearance, I simply meant vegetation, but that did still get answered.  I understood taking down the ridge a bit, especially that close to the tee.  I guess I had been in the UK too long assuming maybe some of the cleared vegetation all around might have been usable grassy rough that need not be disturbed during construction.  If you are fortunate enough ever to be in such situations, how often do you try and preserve these potential "grass" roughs during construction?  Or does it just get too tricky sometimes where a full wipeout and reseed becomes the better option?  This is also assuming that such existing rough would be desirable for golf i.e. not too thick and penal

Brett:

If the native rough is playable, we try like hell to preserve as much as we can.

That said, tie-ins are extremely important to us.  If this hill had been all grass, the key would have been how to change from the native grass to what we planted without it looking obvious.  If you can leave it all to the top, great ... if not, then you are painting a line which everyone will see, and you've got to be very conscious of how that line looks.  Sometimes, we make that transition with a bunker in between so it won't clash so much; other times, that means changing the grass all the way down to the bottom of the hill.

[Rob Rigg]

Probably in my top 3 tee shots at Old Mac - I love it!

My Dad crushed a driver - for him - and it dropped in the course - of course we were playing into a 20 mph wind (or something).

Make sure you play the "right" tees.

I much prefer this drive to #9 at Pac - it's all about fading it off the snare or drawing it around the snare - so cool!

30 ft? Don't tell my Dad . . . Seems like 40 to 50 ft. Awesome!

[Mark Arata]

It is a very fun tee shot....with no wind or the wind at your back....... Into the breeze, it is a ITCH with a capital B.

Played 5 rounds there, 3 into the wind, 1 downwind, one with no wind..... I got it over the ridge from the back tees 3 times, one by about 6 inches into the wind........downwind I think a big hitter can reach that with a draw just to the right of the tree and a good bounce.

The course is a blast to play, but we played it with the "wrong" wind 3 times, and the back nine with that wind is a bear.....there are some very long par 4's on Mac with the wrong wind.......

 

[Ross Tuddenham]

How would it compare to the original?  I will admit I was not really up on the history of the Sahara at Royal St Georges and did not know it was converted in 1970 to a par 3.  In Ran's article on NGLA it mentions the change at Royal St Georges and says the change was "probably just as well".  Was the original flawed in some way?

[Tom_Doak]

Ross:

When I played Royal St. George's in 1982, the two blind holes which had been redesigned in the 1970's (Sahara and Hades) were still preserved out among the dunes.  

Sahara was not as impressive-looking as I had expected ... I suspect that they had allowed a lot of sandy areas in the rough to grow over to prevent erosion.  Anyway, it was only a little over 200 yards on the direct line, I think, over a shoulder or ridge 10-15 feet high, with fairway around to the right for players who didn't want to make the direct assault.

[Anthony Gray]

Dead tree in play trumps windmill out of play.

Anthony,

I'm concerned that you've been drinking too much of that Bandon Cool-Aid.

Kevin,

Anyone who's noticed the windows and dents on the Windmill can attest to the windmill being IN-play.

Especially when the hole is cut on the far left of the green.

  Anthony

  The average player can't hit that windmill,but they sure can hit that tree.

  Anthony

[Bill Brightly]

This may be a dumb question, but how long can you expect a dead tree to stay standing?

[Anthony Gray]

This may be a dumb question, but how long can you expect a dead tree to stay standing?

\
  Not dumb, I thought the same thing.

  ARG

[Tom_Doak]

Bill:

Not a dumb question.  They are studying this problem now in Bandon.  One suggestion was to cut down the tree, fill it with concrete, and stand it back up! 

[I would not make that up.]

Personally, for me, when it goes, it goes.  I had to route the golf course around it, but it is not an essential feature for Macdonald's idea.  However, the hole will get easier if and when the tree eventually falls.

[Jon Wiggett]

What about building a windmill to replace the dead tree when it finally goes or maybe a new dead tree.

[Bill_McBride]

How is the tree at #2 Pacific Dunes holding up?  (So to speak!)

[Anthony Gray]

What about building a windmill to replace the dead tree when it finally goes or maybe a new dead tree.

  A hundred foot gold statue.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dead tree in play trumps windmill out of play.

Anthony,

I'm concerned that you've been drinking too much of that Bandon Cool-Aid.

Kevin,

Anyone who's noticed the windows and dents on the Windmill can attest to the windmill being IN-play.

Especially when the hole is cut on the far left of the green.

  Anthony

The average player can't hit that windmill, but they sure can hit that tree.

Anthony, then you're saying that it's the better player that's hitting the windmill, which would seem to indicate that it is in play 

[John Mayhugh]

The tree is 160-170 yards from the third tee at Old Macdonald.  The windmill at NGLA is about 200 yards from the tee.  While the windmill is a bit further away, it's also a much larger obstacle.  My biggest fear at NGLA was to hit both the clubhouse and windmill in back to back holes, but fortunately avoided them both.

[Anthony Gray]

Dead tree in play trumps windmill out of play.

Anthony,

I'm concerned that you've been drinking too much of that Bandon Cool-Aid.

Kevin,

Anyone who's noticed the windows and dents on the Windmill can attest to the windmill being IN-play.

Especially when the hole is cut on the far left of the green.

  Anthony

The average player can't hit that windmill, but they sure can hit that tree.

Anthony, then you're saying that it's the better player that's hitting the windmill, which would seem to indicate that it is in play 

  Longer player. The better player would miss it.

  Anthony

[Jon Wiggett]

What about building a windmill to replace the dead tree when it finally goes or maybe a new dead tree.

  A hundred foot gold statue.

Yeah, but of who? MacDonald, Doak or the old farmer?    Shame it is not a Trump course as that would give a clear cut answer 

[Bill Brightly]

I think the tee shot is easier with the tree and here's why: I will pick a target 10 yards right of the tree, take quick glances of the tree as I set up, and then hit my planned shot. A "blank" hillside would be much more unsettlling to me, I would be thinking "which tuft of grass was my target?"

Like Pacific Dunes #9 (right pin,) my caddy gave me 5 wood twice and 3 wood one day (with no tail wnd) and told me to hit it over the steps, and I did it 3 of 3 times. (Dont ask how well I judged where to land my 110 yards approaches...) Those steps as a target as so helpful.

[Bill Brightly]

How is the tree at #2 Pacific Dunes holding up?  (So to speak!)

This tree?