Seven Canyons Bankruptcy

[A.G._Crockett]

Played at Seven Canyons on Sunday, and found the course to be the most scenic golf course I've ever been on, and a very, very good golf course as well.  The views of the red rock canyons around Sedona were just unbelievable; I didn't even bother to take pictures becuase the scenery is 360* and too immense.

However, the conditions were not at all what they have apparently been in the past, especially the fairways, which are primarily poa.
We asked about it after the round, and were told by one of the employees that a pump had failed the previous week and that they had been unable to water.  He also told us that the development had gone into bankruptcy the previous week.

Very tough times in the golf industry; this was a perfect Sunday afternoon on Memorial Day weekend, and the course had lots of empty tee times.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

A proposed clubhouse was never built. The time shares, originally priced at 3-400K, are now selling as resales for around 200K. I played there before the market collapsed with a Desert Mountain member who bought a six figure membership at Seven Canyons. The building lots were selling for 1M.

Here's the article:

http://www.redrocknews.com/News/seven-canyons-goes-into-bankruptcy.html

The most scenic inland course that I've played. Stunning.

[Josh Smith]

Bummer...I helped build Seven Canyons.  Many fine memories from day one clearing centerlines through the forest.  I think the scenery is what got me thinking about taking up painting.  Hope it turns around.

Josh

[Matt_Ward]

A.G. --

Thanks for the update -- sorry to hear about the failure but I see the course as more of a scenic wonder -- I think of it as being akin -- to a slightly lesser situation -- than Old Head in Ireland. More show than substance.

Seven Canyons is indeed a beautiful location but the holes were often way too-treed for my tastes and Weiskopf has done better in other venues -- see Silverleaf, also in AZ.

I wish them well ...

[A.G._Crockett]

A.G. --

Thanks for the update -- sorry to hear about the failure but I see the course as more of a scenic wonder -- I think of it as being akin -- to a slightly lesser situation -- than Old Head in Ireland. More show than substance.

Seven Canyons is indeed a beautiful location but the holes were often way too-treed for my tastes and Weiskopf has done better in other venues -- see Silverleaf, also in AZ.

I wish them well ...

Matt,
I had not seen Seven Canyons before Sunday, so I don't know what might have been done since it opened.  But I really didn't notice any tree problems or constraints for the most part.  There are more trees than other desert courses, naturally, because it's Sedona and not Phoenix, but nothing out of the ordinary.

We all loved the golf course (there were 17 of us), but the scenery is so overwhelming that is it hard to say too much for sure at this point.  I remember the scenery better than the holes after one play, but my sense is that the course is quite good, that it would stand well on its own if there was standard desert scenery.

I am curious as to why Seven Canyons dropped out of Golfweek's Top 100 modern this year.  I don't know if the conditioning problems had already surfaced, or if the complete unwalkability hurt, or if it was something else.  If any raters have some insight, I'd love to hear it.

[Matt_Ward]

A.G.,

Weiskopf was blessed with a wonderfully scenic piece of property but the overall nature of the holes themselves were on the good side of things for me -- surely not great and I would be hard pressed to see the course crack my personal top 100 in the USA.
I also believe the amount of adjoining trees hanging on or near the fairways was also a bit much.

Scenery can and is a powerful seduction. Old Head has the same issue.

Unfortunately, Weiskopf has done some really solid work and a few of his layouts can little attention here.

A pity ...

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Update from Bill Huffman with pics and quotes from Tom Weiskopf:

http://www.azgolf.org/livelearnplay/articleDetails.asp?Category=37&Article=378

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Great post.

I chuckle when I hear Golfweek calling it the "Imax of golf."

The place is all about the scenery and no doubt the vistas and surruoundings are impressive to the eye.

Seven Canyons reminds me of a lesser version of Old Head -- at least the Irish course has no less than six holes that have plenty of ummmph to its credit.

Everytime I hear about discussion of Seven Canyons I never hear about any details tied to the holes. Weiskopf has done better in my mind -- Silverleaf gets little attention -- likely because it's in the more crowded Scottsdale theater.

For Seven Canyons to be advertised as a public course has to really p-o the members rightly. To sink that much $$ and get nothing back for your $$ is really a kick in the ass for sure.

One final thing -- if people want a top draw Weiskopf course with a solid setting -- go to the Prescott area which isn't far away from Sedona and play Hassayampa.

Unfortunately, many people may not have even heard of it. A pity -- because it's a fine member course that flies off the radar screen for many.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt,

Maybe next winter I'll visit Hassayampa. I like to visit Prescott...great town.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Be sure to play the Jay Moorish course there called Talking Rock-- good layout. Hassayampa is a solid member's course -- it won't check the low handicap player who may find it a bit contrived but there's enough there to fascinate most players.

If you need a public course option check out Prescott Lakes (Irwin design) and StoneRidge by Randy Heckenkemper. I liked StoneRidge -- wonderful rolling terrain (one will need a cart) and there's jus enough bite to handle the high and low handicap types.

[A.G._Crockett]

Update from Bill Huffman with pics and quotes from Tom Weiskopf:

http://www.azgolf.org/livelearnplay/articleDetails.asp?Category=37&Article=378

I'm not sure what to think about these pictures; I played Seven Canyons on May 30th, and the 15th fairway was fine.  Not perfect (which we had expected, quite frankly) but fine, and much more like the second picture than the first.  In fact, we didn't see anything like the first picture.  I realize that poa fairways in AZ in May/June could come and go pretty quickly, but I still can't resolve these pictures with what I saw.

That said, if I was a member who joined for six figures, I too would be really hacked.

[Matt_Ward]

The key with places like Seven Canyons and any similar club going through the same thing is that the people who had to pony up the hefty initiation fees are quite rightly going to be peeved that they are holding the bag as the place seeks a cash flow via public course play.

They didn't sign on for public access play -- they wanted it private as advertised.

No doubt the ownership is trying to maintain control, get money flow and at the same time pacify the existing membership base. That kind of agenda is a very tough one to navigate.

Despite all that, someone has to explain to me where the beef is with Seven Canyons - it's the personification of sheer beauty and no real substance -- to use Doak's CG phrase -- a great explain of the "dumb blonde" award in my mind.

[Andy Troeger]

I like Seven Canyons better than Matt does, but I do think the course benefits tremenously from its setting as opposed to any brilliance in the routing or design. Other than looking at the photos I took I have a hard time remembering anything about individual holes, but the views are sure amazing. There's nothing wrong with the holes, but they aren't quite enough to put the course in the top ten in the state given the other options available. I tend to feel that way about Stone Canyon too.

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

Frankly, Stone Canyon (one of JM's best courses) and what Weiskopf did at Silervleaf go mainly underappreciated by too many people.

Seven Canyons is a visual Disneyland layout -- just blows one away with the views but there is no "there" there after one discounts the views. If someone can point out to me any key holes or design elements of a compelling nature I'm all ears.

[Andy Troeger]

Matt,
Its hard to say that Stone Canyon is underappreciated--its in the Digest 100 Greatest and the Golf Week Modern listing. I do know a lot of other people seem to see more there than I do--there are a handful of pretty good holes but nothing jumps out at me from a design standpoint. Nothing else I've seen from Morrish or Weiskopf comes close to their effort at Forest Highlands on the Canyon Course.

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

Have you played Silverleaf ?

Have you played TW's effort at Lahotan ?

Moorish did a stellar job w Stone Canyon -- there's more shotmaking requirements there than even the Canyon Course at FH.

Try to keep in mind, The Canyon course skillfully included a whole slew of par-3's into the design (to handle the altitude element) -- Doak made mention of this in CG and from the times I have played the course I salute what was done there but the par-4 holes are among the weak elements there -- no doubt the 9th is a world class hole.

In regards to Stone Canyon -- check out the different types of holes and how Moorish paces the golfer through them during the round. In many ways, I find Stone Canyon to be a bit more demanding than many comparable housign development courses.

[Andy Troeger]

I haven't played Silverleaf or Lahontan.

There aren't that many par fours at FH Canyon--and #9 and #17 are fantastic. The rest admittedly aren't the strength of the layout, but they are all pretty solid. The par fives are really what separates FH Canyon from Stone Canyon, partially because I think the two on the back at Stone Canyon are pretty awful. #18 and #5 at FH are both pretty solid holes and I like the green at #13 at lot too. The par threes are a really good set with some interesting variety despite there being so many of them.  I think the variety of holes at FH Canyon is tremendous, in part because of the balance between the par threes, fours, and fives. Stone Canyon is certainly harder, if that's a consideration.

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

I give TW and JM credit in using the overdose of par-3 holes at Canyon FH to handle the altitude element but not all of them are noteworthy and frankly I think the course has lost a bit of it luster to other high elevation courses since it opened a number of years ago.

I agree -- #9 and #17 have plenty to offer but Stone Canyon and should you get the opportunity -- Silverleaf and Lahontan are two solid TW layouts that get little attention here. JM does have a few harder holes at Stone Canyon.

Getting back to Seven Canyons I wish them well in getting themselves back together. But even if that should happen -- I don't see the beef with the layout there. Be curious to have the comments of those who have played both Seven Canyons and nearby Hassayampa which is in the Prescott area.

[Matthew Sander]

After nearly two years of uncertainty...well, some certainty:

http://blogs.golf.com/trips/2012/05/arizonas-spectacular-once-private-seven-canyons-is-open-to-the-masses.html

Sedona is one of my favorite places to visit. My parents live in the PHX area and my wife and I try to spend a couple of days in Sedona every other time we are there. Looks like we'll have something else to look forward to on our next trip.

[Tom Allen]

It is as beautiful a course as I have ever seen.  Tough, to be sure (a little narrow for my game), but I could not put down my camera in my two rounds there.  Glad to see others can play it now.

[Matthew Petersen]

It's a good course, not a great one, but with unmatched scenery. Definitely a little tighter than would be preferrable. Still a much better course and with better views than either of the other golf options in Sedona.

[Mike Wagner]

Just played there last weekend and did NOT have the reviewer's experience.  The VILLAS are a perfect 10.  I thought the course was a 2 at best.  Missed opportunity.

[John_Cullum]

Seven Canyons is high on my list to play. It has to be one of the most incredible places in the world to play a round. It also has the added benefit of being a place the  non golfing Mrs. will be able to enjoy. That is always a tough nut to crack

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Seven Canyons has emerged from bankruptcy and has been acquired by Northlight Financial:

http://www.hotelinteractive.com/article.aspx?articleid=29399

The course is now private again as I discovered on a recent trip to Sedona; however, there is an arrangement for guests of Enchantment Resort for guests to play there:

http://www.enchantmentresort.com/sedona_golf_resort/golf_instruction/

[Tom Allen]

That is correct.

Also, did you happen see the new clubhouse taking shape (finally)?  I was there a few months back and noticed it coming along nicely.  The course was back to very good (pre-bankruptcy) shape as well.

My father lives in Sedona, and is friends with a member of Seven Canyons, so we try to play it each time I visit (about 2x per year).  Still some of the most stunning visuals I have seen.