[Garland Bayley]

Let us use a little math related concepts to define course dimensionality.
To keep this simple to begin with, let us just use 4 dimensions. length, width, vertical, and wind related.

Our first axiom will be that a huge number of courses in the US are one dimensional. By that I mean that their fairways are narrow giving us nothing to speak of  in the width dimension, they are soft giving us nothing to speak of in the vertical dimension (shots must be hit high, little ground game), and they are mostly windless.

When the fairways are widened and options opened up (often with line of instinct hazards) the courses become two dimensional.

When, in addition, the ground is maintained fast and firm the courses become three dimensional.

When, in addition, there is wind to play with your ball, the courses become four dimensional.

No wonder Sand Hills jumped to the top of the modern list!

Thoughts?

[JESII]

Thoughts?

Yeah - have the nurse close the glue bottle...

[Garland Bayley]

Thoughts?

Yeah - have the nurse close the glue bottle...

LOL

Sully,

You have me confused with Mucci. He is the one with the nurse.

[Steve Wilson]

Dementianality.  What happens when you think way too much about golf architecture instead of playing golf.

[Mac Plumart]

 

In all honesty, I can see Garland's point/ideas.

I remember playing golf this winter in GA.  We had a bunch of rain and the balls just stuck in the wet GA clay with no roll out.  It was kind of a bummer feeling to hit a nice shot and then "plop" right into the clay.  Yucky.

But during that time I had the chance to travel to Palm Springs for some golf.  I can still remember my first well stuck shot (I think it was the fourth or fifth round  ) the ball bounced high off the fairway and took a weird left kick and rolled and rolled and rolled.  Quite exhillarating to see that thing kick and roll to who knows where.  Fun golf.

So, take away the tree lined fairways and the corridors to shoot through and you add a new dimension of fun to the game.

Add in the firm and fast fairways and then some wind, maybe off the ocean, and now you've got a game.

For the fifth dimension, you can add in glue, beer, pain meds...hey, whatever takes you to the next dimension!!   

[JESII]

For the fifth dimension, you can add in glue, beer, pain meds...hey, whatever takes you to the next dimension!!   

There are times I think Garland lives on that fifth dimension...

[Garland Bayley]

Sully,

A guy has to reach YaBB God somehow! I notice you are falling behind. Buck up Sully!

[TEPaul]

I think one of the best up and coming subjects to discuss on this website is the analytical ramifications of Jim Sullivan's mind, particularly as it relates to golf and golf course architecture.

I'm not sure I have ever known what to make of it but something tells me there may be something of a learning curve for all of us in it!!

As a precusor for those who are interested in exploring this subject I should tell you that you may want to preface it by watching him play golf sometime. Obviously he's a very good player. Since he is so much younger than me he came along at the end of my career so I think I only played with him perhaps once, but I have watched him when I'm out there officiating. He is without question to me a pretty unusual player. His thought processes seem very fast and he also may be the fastest putter with the least pre-putt routine I have ever seen.

I wonder what it means.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Garland - You have an interesting take on dimensionality, especially the 3rd and 4th dimensions. Obviously everyone here loves to talk width, so we will skip that one and move on to the others!

I would say there is no reason to rename the dimensions: length, width, height and time work just fine.

Height: Good golf courses have a combination of both 2D hazards (bunker, rough, water, etc) and 3D hazards (trees and elevation changes)

Time: Remember golf courses are living things.. they evolve, and are constantly effected by the elements... thus you have your firm and fast conditions are certain times if x,y and z all align at the particular time.

Wind I would say has more to do with length (x), than its own dimension. I think a good architect contemplates the impact of wind most in the context of length, and sometimes width, but also realizes it is a product of time.

[TEPaul]

Who said something or anything about time as a necessary dimension in golf (or golf architecture)?

[Mike Cirba]

Oh, I thought the Moody Blues had reunited and put out a new album.

Nevermind...

[Garland Bayley]

Jaeger,

You are aware there are 11 dimensions aren't you? At least that's the last thing I heard from the string theorists guys. Don't remember all of them, but I am pretty sure gravitational pull was one of them. The thing is, and probably the reason you named four, is that dimensions 5 through 11 have a extremely minor effect.

I was thinking about dimensions that change the golf game most significantly. I would suggest that time changes the game at a course less than wind does. Using you example of fast and firm, a course usually does not go from wet and slow to fast and firm as fast as wind direction and velocity change.

So you see, I was trying to name dimensions that are part of a golf game rather than dimensions that are part of our physical universe. I most definitely agree that time is a dimension of the golf game, but less prevalent that wind. If Sand Hills had the playing conditions such as fast and firm vary greatly by time, I would argue that it would not be considered as highly as it is. The even go to the extreme measure of shutting down the course when time does not treat them well (winter).

The perception of how to adjust the length variable is an interesting one. For some reason, people thing that adjusting it up all the time is the way to go. Tom Doak would rather adjust it down. After Tom mentioned Tumble Creek on a recent thread, I looked at their website, and the course tour. I think Tom might be aghast that they gave apparently only the back tee length for each hole. I didn't look very far through the course, but what I saw were par 3s over 200, and par 4s over 400. At that rate, it was going to go into the middle 7000s. Apparently they were not trying to attract old codgers like me.




 

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