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Carl Johnson

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Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2010, 06:08:34 PM »
. . . .
Carl, the Sandhills a bit faux?  I can see how one could perceive it that way.  It is more egalitarian than most of the great U.S. golf destinations.  It's not an exquisitely private place like some of the fabulous courses.  So there is that tourist sheen to the area.  Beyond that I think the area speaks for itself.  If anybody thinks it is not a cornucopia of truly great golf I would find that entertaining and amusing.
The courses I think make the area worthy of a visit are (in order) Dormie, #2, Pine Needles, Mid Pines and Southern Pines C.C.  If a golfer does not find that a satisfying menu then good luck to you.
. . . .

I have no problem with the golf courses.  I believe my problem is that as a North Carolinian I see the sandhills beyond the golf, and I don't see the golf fitting into the greater community.  An "outsider" could see it from an entirely different perspective.  By "faux" I refer to what I see as an unsuccessful p.r. attempt to merge the golf and the greater community.  So, I agree with you, it's likely just my personal perspective -- I'm too close to it.  Still, I say, "Y'all come," but focus on the spring and fall.  Would a Scot (by the way, what do you call a resident of Fife?  Fifeian?) say the same of St. Andrews?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 06:12:54 PM by Carl Johnson »

Roger Wolfe

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Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2010, 06:32:22 PM »
San Diego gets my vote.  No winter... no summer... no dormant bermuda... no humidity... ocean... desert...

I have never been there, but I here Flagstaff, Arizona is pretty special, too!

jim_lewis

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Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2010, 06:34:19 PM »
So Jud, it seems your post did not end the discussion. I am always amused by those who designate their own posts as the "end of discussion". Says you.
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Chris Buie

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Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2010, 06:40:34 PM »
Carl:
Not fitting into the greater community?  Interesting.  I'd probably say yes and no.  Of course, a lot of local people do not golf.  Many people do not care for the game and have illusions and objections about what golf is.  I think it is unfortunate they live here and don't at least have an occasional go.  I mean there are public driving ranges and inexpensive courses (Midland $12 for 9 and Whispering Woods - an Ellis Maples track - for $15). 
Everybody here does appreciate that it is the lifeblood of the area.  Even the people that don't care for the game. 
The golf community here does do a lot of things for the greater community beyond employment.  There are a lot of donations (monetary and otherwise) that go into the community.  A small, relevant example: the grass they are currently taking off #2 will be used for the new baseball complex at the local high school.  And the U.S. Open is not exactly unwelcome to the shopkeepers and restaurateurs.
So I can't entirely agree with you.  Maybe you are seeing something I'm not.
And what are residents of Fife called?  Lucky!

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2010, 06:45:36 PM »
Carl...

I would love to hear you expound upon your post.  I was a recent visitor to the Pinehurst area and was simply blown away.  Truly great golf courses available to play with the greatest of ease.  Most public so that added to the feeling of welcomeness.  Statue of Donald Ross in the center of town, the amazing information in the Tufts archives, the sand green in the middle of town, Pine Crest Inn, etc.  It felt like the entire town was committed to golf as a way of life, not just the resort being committed...the entire town.

But here is the kicker, I played #8 right before I left town and headed back to Atlanta.  I had a great round, enjoyed the course, and was in a state of euphoria when I struck up a conversation with one of the people working for the golf course.  I told him I thought it was a great town and I wanted to move there.  His response was, "yeah, we get that a lot.  The town is ok I guess."

So with that and your comment about how the town appears to visitors, I am interested to hear more about what I might be missing.

Thanks in advance.

FYI...Chris B. posted while I was typing and I haven't had a chance to read it yet.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2010, 06:47:09 PM »
I'm biased--and probably stating the safe, somewhat obvious choice--but I'd have to say the Monterey, CA area.  Nowhere has the variety and quality of golf courses--Pebble Beach, Cypress, Spyglass, the two MPCC courses, the two old Ft. Ord courses, etc.  And there are many other lesser, but good, courses.
The weather can be wet in Jan.-Feb., but there can be beautiful days as well.  Christmas time may be the best time of year. The summer can be foggy--especially in August.  But it doesn't really affect the golf.
And there are actually many wonderful things to do there besides golf!

George Pazin

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Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2010, 06:50:45 PM »
Michael, can you give us a compelling sketch of Aiken?  Aiken GC and Palmetto are very nice but is there something else I'm not aware of?  I know a lot of people who go there for equestrian reasons but have not heard it put out there as a serious golf destination.

I'd guess that for Michael, it's just home. :)

Of course I always tell people that if I disappear, look for me and my son at Barnbougle...
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2010, 06:55:27 PM »
Michael, can you give us a compelling sketch of Aiken?  Aiken GC and Palmetto are very nice but is there something else I'm not aware of?  I know a lot of people who go there for equestrian reasons but have not heard it put out there as a serious golf destination.

I'd guess that for Michael, it's just home. :)

Of course I always tell people that if I disappear, look for me and my son at Barnbougle...

Well there are good restaurants....probably ten golf courses old and new....steeplechase....reasonable housing and they got a fenced area where all the yankees have to live ;D ;D   what more could you want....you just go to one little fenced area and can get any question you have answered ..better than google... ;D

But for me..Philly is the best golf town....plenty to do and great golf....
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Phil_the_Author

Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2010, 07:14:58 PM »
Bill,

If access is no problem then I'd agree with you on New York City, rather than just the Hamptoms. A very close second, if not a tie, would be be San Francisco.

With SFGC, Cal Club, Olympic and Harding Park practically on top of each other, Pasatiempo just outside the city and a two-hour drive down the coast (think Mahnattan to Hamptons time in good traffic) to Monterey and even the occasional weekender up the coast to Bandon...

Anthony Gray

Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2010, 07:25:14 PM »


   Cabo........St Andrews........Gib's spare bedroom.


  Anthony


Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2010, 08:00:23 PM »
Michael, can you give us a compelling sketch of Aiken?  Aiken GC and Palmetto are very nice but is there something else I'm not aware of?  I know a lot of people who go there for equestrian reasons but have not heard it put out there as a serious golf destination.

Chris, just a personal choice.  If I just want to knock it around for fun, Aiken Golf Club's tough to beat - an easy 3 hrs. stroll.  If I want a little challenge, Palmetto's a couple of minutes away.  The occasional round at Sage Valley would be a bonus and I'm sure with my Southern charm and instant likeability, I'd garner an invitation to Augusta National Golf Club every few years, not to mention Ross' Augusta Country Club.

I could get anywhere in town in five minutes and live in a modest, yet architecturally significant home on a wooded lot with a nice screened in porch, perfect for sipping iced tea and the occasional Reisling in the summer.  Cool enough in the winter to enjoy a fire and a nice port.  A couple of decent restaurants and watering holes in town and maybe they'd let me teach Sunday School at the Methodist Church.  The town's just big enough for some occasionally juicy gossip and small enough for someone like me to make a slight difference.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2010, 08:28:18 PM »
Michael, can you give us a compelling sketch of Aiken?  Aiken GC and Palmetto are very nice but is there something else I'm not aware of?  I know a lot of people who go there for equestrian reasons but have not heard it put out there as a serious golf destination.

Chris, just a personal choice.  If I just want to knock it around for fun, Aiken Golf Club's tough to beat - an easy 3 hrs. stroll.  If I want a little challenge, Palmetto's a couple of minutes away.  The occasional round at Sage Valley would be a bonus and I'm sure with my Southern charm and instant likeability, I'd garner an invitation to Augusta National Golf Club every few years, not to mention Ross' Augusta Country Club.

I could get anywhere in town in five minutes and live in a modest, yet architecturally significant home on a wooded lot with a nice screened in porch, perfect for sipping iced tea and the occasional Reisling in the summer.  Cool enough in the winter to enjoy a fire and a nice port.  A couple of decent restaurants and watering holes in town and maybe they'd let me teach Sunday School at the Methodist Church.  The town's just big enough for some occasionally juicy gossip and small enough for someone like me to make a slight difference.

Bogey

And here I thought you'd say Myrtle Beach..... :)
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Dave Falkner

Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2010, 08:46:20 PM »
Another vote for Lahinch

amazing course, great surfing, traditional pub at one end of the street and a surf bar overlooking the ocean at the other

Hamptons are too crowded with undesirables during the summmer months- best time for the hamptons is fall   great fishing great weather for golf

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2010, 08:50:24 PM »
Jim,
No it didn't end the discussion but yes, I was right :)
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2010, 08:53:10 PM »
JC, a man's gotta vacation somewhere!
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2010, 09:20:44 PM »
Southhampton, NY would be sweet for a summer. With access there wouldn't be reason to leave Southhampton to see any other Long Island or metro NY courses.

Dave Falkner

Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2010, 09:26:11 PM »
Bill
there are around 100,000 or so reasons to leave southampton in the summer  but the great thing is they all (or at lest most of them) leave after labor day

jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2010, 10:22:12 PM »
Jud:

Your choices may, in fact, be right, but why end the discussion at that point?  If every time I am right, I ended the discussion, I would have lots of very short discussions. I feel it is important to let those who are wrong go ahead and have their say. I even changed my mind once, but only temporarily. 

Jim
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Germain Pepin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2010, 08:17:03 AM »
Hilton Head area would not be a bad choice. Aiken SC is also an interesting place. But all depends of our preferences.

Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2010, 08:53:43 AM »
JC, we are obviously discussing the best golf town after Myrtle Beach.  I thought that would go without saying.  Get with it man.  Although, I will grant you that sublime retreat did take a hit in the ratings when Possum Trot changed it's greenskeeper.

PCCraig

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Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2010, 09:59:32 AM »
Kiawah Island
Pinehurst
Carmel
Melbourne, Austrailia
And maybe Chicago :)
H.P.S.

Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2010, 10:46:45 AM »
If I had one last golf trip to take, I think I'd got to Melbourne.  Southhampton would be second.  From places I've been, I think Bandon and St. Andrews are the two best golf destinations.

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2010, 10:47:50 AM »
Carl...

I would love to hear you expound upon your post.  I was a recent visitor to the Pinehurst area and was simply blown away.  Truly great golf courses available to play with the greatest of ease.  Most public so that added to the feeling of welcomeness.  Statue of Donald Ross in the center of town, the amazing information in the Tufts archives, the sand green in the middle of town, Pine Crest Inn, etc.  It felt like the entire town was committed to golf as a way of life, not just the resort being committed...the entire town.

Been there and seen that.  I've spent the good part of an afternoon in the Tufts archives, stayed at The Carolina, eaten at the Pine Crest Inn, visited the shops and so on, but honestly don't recall seeing the sand green.  The Village of Pinehurst itself is without a doubt committed to golf (more about that in my general response below).

But here is the kicker, I played #8 right before I left town and headed back to Atlanta.  I had a great round, enjoyed the course, and was in a state of euphoria when I struck up a conversation with one of the people working for the golf course.  I told him I thought it was a great town and I wanted to move there.  His response was, "yeah, we get that a lot.  The town is ok I guess."

So with that and your comment about how the town appears to visitors, I am interested to hear more about what I might be missing.

Thanks in advance.

FYI...Chris B. posted while I was typing and I haven't had a chance to read it yet.

Mac (and Chris),

I'll try again.  In the first place, understand that I'm not knocking Pinehurst or the sandhills golf courses as a golf destination.  In fact, this discussion has got me thinking (always a useful outcome) that I need to take an extended (five days or so), golf vacation to the sandhills to really try to get into it.  I've never taken an extended golf vacation to the area.  It's all been daytrips or three nights at most as best I can recall, and never all about playing golf.  Sometimes when you live so close to something and you know you can easily go there most anytime you want to, you put it off.

The original question had to do with "spend a summer."  Regarding a couple of my specific remarks, I said "the experience is still a little bit faux for me."  The key words are "experience," "little bit," faux" and "me."  "Still" may be confusing -- not a good word to use in this position.  I meant it to have the meaning of "contrast," but there is nothing to contrast it with.  I also talked about my sense of how golf fits into the greater community.

The word, "me," is the most important.  I've lived in North Carolina as an adult since 1965, four years as a law student and graduate student in the Triange area of Durham, Raleigh and Chapel Hill, and then in Charlotte.  During those years I've visited the sandhills any number of times, for a variety of reasons, not all having to do with golf.  So, it's hard for me to get rid of my personal history and how it influences things I see today.  Go back to my earliest impressions, which can be the strongest, in the late 1960s.  Beyond that, yes, I will admit I'm originally a Yankee.  There are plenty of good things in the history of the rural south and some not so good and I'll leave it at that.

Second, "experience."  Not just the golf, but the entire experience, bringing together my history, such as it is, with the area and thinking about living there for a summer and playing golf.  In spite of its growth, the sandhills is still a little too rural for my taste, which is not to say it shouldn't or wouldn't fit others perfectly.  So what I see is a rural old south on which a golf environment has been developed and I don't see the cultures mixing all that well.  Recently I believe the sandhills region has become somewhat of a retirement destination, and it will be interesting to see how that affects the social and cultural enviroment.

"Little bit."  That modifier is important.

The "faux" part has to do with a couple of things.  First, as alluded to above, is the imposition of a golf community on top of a rural southern community.  Remember that the Village of Pinehurst and the Pinehurst resort were developed as a destination for wealthy northerners, mostly, for vacation in the winter.  Golf was added fairly early, but not right at the beginning, as an activity for guests.  The golf did not develop locally.  Second, the Village itself appears to be very tightly controlled to maintain someone's vision of a "quaint" golf town.  I'd rather see a little more diversity.  Of course, the Village is only a small part of the area, but beyond the Village I don't get a significant golf vibe.  As I mentioned at the outset, maybe I need to update my experience.  I could go on, but don't want to belabor the point.  I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

A couple of references on the local "politics." http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PressReleases1998_3rd/July98_PinehurstNameLawsuit.html and http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2008/02/11/story10.html.  I do not know how the issues raised by these lawsuits have been finally resolved or settled.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 04:06:36 PM by Carl Johnson »

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2010, 10:50:04 AM »
Kiawah Island
Pinehurst
Carmel
Melbourne, Austrailia
And maybe Chicago :)

Pat,

Chicago is the best TOWN....Hard to be the best golf town with one Doak 8 that's impossible to access, a couple of 7's and no 9's or 10's at all amongst hundreds of courses..... :-\
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 10:53:11 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Roger Wolfe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The perfect golf town?
« Reply #49 on: June 03, 2010, 11:04:52 AM »

... I struck up a conversation with one of the people working for the golf course.  I told him I thought it was a great town and I wanted to move there.  His response was, "yeah, we get that a lot.  The town is ok I guess."


My understanding is that the "townies" hate the resort.  Chris... correct me if I'm wrong... this is just from
getting to know folks at the Pine Crest Inn over the years.  Mac... that might be the source of the interesting
response you received from the maintenance crew.  Someone explained to me that you have three different
classes in Pinehurst.  The residents/retirees... the resort management... the workers.  Three distinct populations that
DO NOT MIX.  The residents live in the village and golf communities... management lives on property or on the fringes...
workers live in Taylortown.  None of this is fact... just heresay.  I would love to get some true verification from a native.

PS.  In case you guys are wondering who burned down the room above the bar at the Pine Crest... it was me.  Woke
up at 7 AM and the 60's vintage space heater (that I hadn't even turned on) popped and a puff of smoke came out.
I reported to the desk and headed to Tobacco Road to play golf.  At the turn I got a call that the room had burned
down.  Small world.

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