Prairie Club is Open - So lets hear some feedback

[PCCraig]

C'mon guys.  They've signed up around 200 members already.  They can't charge the public fifty bucks to pop in and play 18.

From what I remember the fee structure is a lot like Bandon...so the 2nd round of the day is discounted, and the horse course is free. So the more golf you can play each day the better the value. So you budget for ~$350/day for golf, which isn't that bad considering 45 holes at Kohler would be $600+ in the high season.

[Garland Bayley]

C'mon guys.  They've signed up around 200 members already.  They can't charge the public fifty bucks to pop in and play 18.

I'm curious about that. Is Wild Horse so over run with golfers that if they had 200 members that show up occasionally, the members would be noticeably inconvenienced?
 

[Jerry Kluger]

If you stay there it is $180 for golf plus $50 replay and Horse course is free plus carts which means around $280 for 36 holes plus short - Bandon is $220 plus 110 replay plus caddies so over $500 per day in season.  

They alternate between the two 18s for member and public play but member only pays annual fee and I would presume his guests pay less and rooms are less.

[Garland Bayley]

C'mon guys.  They've signed up around 200 members already.  They can't charge the public fifty bucks to pop in and play 18.

From what I remember the fee structure is a lot like Bandon...so the 2nd round of the day is discounted, and the horse course is free. So the more golf you can play each day the better the value. So you budget for ~$350/day for golf, which isn't that bad considering 45 holes at Kohler would be $600+ in the high season.

I can understand Kohler. Being on the lake and all. Being not far from population centers. But the Prairie Club is at the other extreme of those factors.

[PCCraig]

If you stay there it is $180 for golf plus $50 replay and Horse course is free plus carts which means around $280 for 36 holes plus short - Bandon is $220 plus 110 replay plus caddies so over $500 per day in season.  

They alternate between the two 18s for member and public play but member only pays annual fee and I would presume his guests pay less and rooms are less.

Thanks for putting together the actual numbers.

[PCCraig]

C'mon guys.  They've signed up around 200 members already.  They can't charge the public fifty bucks to pop in and play 18.

From what I remember the fee structure is a lot like Bandon...so the 2nd round of the day is discounted, and the horse course is free. So the more golf you can play each day the better the value. So you budget for ~$350/day for golf, which isn't that bad considering 45 holes at Kohler would be $600+ in the high season.

I can understand Kohler. Being on the lake and all. Being not far from population centers. But the Prairie Club is at the other extreme of those factors.

It's $220+ to play Blackwolf Run...not on the lake. $400+ for WS.

I feel sorry for the guy that justifies an extra $200+ in green fees because the course has a view of water.

[Kevin_Reilly]

OK, how about similarity between Sand Hills and Prairie Club. Sand Hills was built for much less than Bandon Dunes, but Bandon Dunes figured they could open and survive on $35 green fee. Of course, they figured out the supply and demand thing, and kept raising the prices from there.

I have re-read this post a couple of times and I don't understand the point you are trying to make, specifically the relationship, if any, between the relative construction costs of SH (a private club) and Bandon Dunes, and the preliminary greens fee at BD. 

[Adam Clayman]

I just read the story in Golfweek about owner of The Prairie Club, Paul Schock.  Great article, great story.  I don't care if it cost $220 to play...I am there!

Oh yeah, the course looks amazing too!

I just read the GW article as well and I'm confused. It says they are open to the public, but then the owner states the following:

“If you want to come and play The Prairie Club, you can,” Schock says. “If you want to come and play often, you need to join.”

Um...ok? So what is it? Public, private, neither? What is "often?" Twice a year? How can you hope to be a Bandon Dunes type business model if you suggest people join if they want to play often. Can anyone explain the quote?

Pat, There's been a lot of info on this project posted on here before. To answer your query here., One of the main under pinnings of the Prairie Club was set out by Cleve Trimble. He strongly believed that Valentine is such a special and unique are, everyone should have the opportunity to play there. That philosophy, if you want to call it that, was adopted by Mr. Shock. So, while it is private, for the time being, the public is invited to play. The price reflects that, imo. If it's important to the retail golfer to play there, there will be a fee. If membership is your bag, joining was much less than typical destination clubs. It sounds like a reasonable balance. Mark Amundson, I believe, has also pointed out that this 'open to the public' is not indefinite.

Garland, You are aware there's a different ownership now?

[Garland Bayley]

OK, how about similarity between Sand Hills and Prairie Club. Sand Hills was built for much less than Bandon Dunes, but Bandon Dunes figured they could open and survive on $35 green fee. Of course, they figured out the supply and demand thing, and kept raising the prices from there.

I have re-read this post a couple of times and I don't understand the point you are trying to make, specifically the relationship, if any, between the relative construction costs of SH (a private club) and Bandon Dunes, and the preliminary greens fee at BD. 

My point is Prairie Club was (or should have been) built fairly inexpensively (using Sand Hills cost as an example). They are opening with a $220 green fee. I don't see how they can justify it given their location. Bandon had a far better location, and they planned to open at $35. Bandon had more expense building because of the noxious gorse weed needing to be cleared. But they planned to open at $35 as a fee they could make a go at. More power to the Prairie Club if the $220 fee works out, but I have to think it will come down.

[Garland Bayley]

I just read the story in Golfweek about owner of The Prairie Club, Paul Schock.  Great article, great story.  I don't care if it cost $220 to play...I am there!

Oh yeah, the course looks amazing too!

I just read the GW article as well and I'm confused. It says they are open to the public, but then the owner states the following:

“If you want to come and play The Prairie Club, you can,” Schock says. “If you want to come and play often, you need to join.”

Um...ok? So what is it? Public, private, neither? What is "often?" Twice a year? How can you hope to be a Bandon Dunes type business model if you suggest people join if they want to play often. Can anyone explain the quote?

Pat, There's been a lot of info on this project posted on here before. To answer your query here., One of the main under pinnings of the Prairie Club was set out by Cleve Trimble. He strongly believed that Valentine is such a special and unique are, everyone should have the opportunity to play there. That philosophy, if you want to call it that, was adopted by Mr. Shock. So, while it is private, for the time being, the public is invited to play. The price reflects that, imo. If it's important to the retail golfer to play there, there will be a fee. If membership is your bag, joining was much less than typical destination clubs. It sounds like a reasonable balance. Mark Amundson, I believe, has also pointed out that this 'open to the public' is not indefinite.

Garland, You are aware there's a different ownership now?

Thanks Adam,

That explains a lot. Things have changed quite a bit from what I read about the place quite a while ago when Gil was to build it.

[Tom_Doak]

For $220, one could play 5+ rounds at Wild Horse.  PC must be pretty special if its going to win a 5 v. 1 contest against WH.

I imagine that a lot of people on this website have read Dream Golf: The Making of Bandon Dunes. If so, they will remember that they had decided on a $35 green fee for their first season. It was only after they found they had mega interest that they bumped it to $100 before the opening. I have to wonder how the Prairie Club arrived at $220 for their opening. It just so happens to be the current fee at Bandon. Must I remind them there is no ocean in Nebraska? Must I remind them they got lots of land for very little money? Are they so lazy as to simply use Bandon as their "marketing research?"

Garland:

I think the main purpose of this thread was to determine how good the courses are, so people can decide if it's worth the $.  You really can't decide the latter without the former.

As for the green fee decision, maybe they want to make back some of the money they've put into the place.  Bandon's original numbers were based on trying to break even in a year-round golf climate [though Mr. Keiser was certainly hoping to do better than break even].  I would bet anything that The Prairie Club has well over $20 million in the ground to build their two courses and lodge, in a place where you'd be thrilled to play much more than 10,000 rounds per year.  You do the math, and tell me how they are going to pay back their investors if they charge much less than $200.

[Tom_Doak]

I feel sorry for the guy that justifies an extra $200+ in green fees because the course has a view of water.

Pat:

Do you feel sorry for the guy who pays more to buy a house on the waterfront, too?

Waterfront and water-view real estate is just more expensive, because there is a long history of people willing to pay the difference.  It's not at all surprising to me that the same is true in golf.  Indeed, since the developer has to pay for the real estate under the course, it would be weird if those courses didn't cost more.

[Kevin_Reilly]

But they planned to open at $35 as a fee they could make a go at.

Obviously that plan didn't last long. 

At $180 for someone staying in the lodge (which is not The Lodge in terms of pricing...$175-200 for a single room), PC will be too much for some and attractively priced for others.

[PCCraig]

I feel sorry for the guy that justifies an extra $200+ in green fees because the course has a view of water.

Pat:

Do you feel sorry for the guy who pays more to buy a house on the waterfront, too?

Waterfront and water-view real estate is just more expensive, because there is a long history of people willing to pay the difference.  It's not at all surprising to me that the same is true in golf.  Indeed, since the developer has to pay for the real estate under the course, it would be weird if those courses didn't cost more.

Tom-

As for your first statement, I can answer with an "it depends." Much like a golf course on the waterfront, if someone builds an ugly house but has ocean view I would feel sorry for the guy because he was dumb enough to buy an ugly house while he was too busy staring at the ocean. However, if someone builds a great house on the ocean, well I don't feel sorry for that guy.

I understand the relationship between the cost of the land and green fees and that waterfront land generally means more expensive golf. What I meant by my comment above is that I feel sorry for the guy that is deciding between two golf resorts or courses (Bandon vs. the Sand Hills or Blackwolf Run vs. WS), sees that one is has ocean, lake, or river views and automatically assumes that golf course is better and justifies the higher fee. Views are nice, and it can add something to the experience, but it shouldn't blind a player to the architecture of the golf course at hand. If Old Macdonald was located in Nebraska with no ocean views and a $100 green fee I would hope that it would receive the same praise it's getting now.

Bottom line is that in a vacuum environment water views justify higher green fees. But when making an enlightened decision as to which golf course to play and whether or not it is really worth the extra money and time, there are more important things than the view.

[Mac Plumart]

As an add on, the article I cited mentions that the fishing in the area is out of this world.

So, I think the idea of going there is to totally get away from it all and totally relax.  Golf, fishing, pure enjoyment.

I thought the idea was to build a private club with that "get away from it all" feel.  Now, if I am allowed sneak peak at this experience for only $220 in greens fees...I for one am willing to pay that price as that is cheap to me.  As has been mentioned, Pebble, Pinehurst, etc are much more expensive...but they don't have that "get away from it all" feeling.

Bottom line...to each their own.  I haven't played this course or been on the property, so I can't speak to its merits.  But that "feeling" is exactly what I am searching for in regards to my national club.

If others are searching for inexpensive but very good golf...Wildhorse, Lawsonia, and the like might be ideal for them.

But, back to the main point of this thread...

When someone has played it...please clue us in on what you think.  It is certainly an intriguing courses/place in my mind and I would love to get some first hand feedback.

[Ron Farris]

I have to say I really didn't see this thread heading in a cost to play direction.  What I was looking for was some feedback from someone who had actually played the courses and might have an opinion, good or bad.

The Prairie Club is a special place in my opinion, but of course I grew up 50 miles from the place.  It is not a Sand Hills GC, nor is the Sand Hills GC a Prairie Club.  You would be hard pressed not to enjoy golf at either venue.  As for the Wildhorse GC, well forget it, it is in a different category.  If it was totally about a $35 green fee then the PC probably wouldn't have been built. 

The Sand Hills has a special mystique about it and either you get it or you dont.  Paul Schock told me that Tom Lehman simply "Got It".

Put the Prairie Club out side of LA, San Fran, or San Diego, and they would beat down the doors to play. 

The Snake River is a blue-ribbon stream, and if you are fortunate enough to get to set your hook in it you know you are somewhere special.  The Dismal rivier is nice, but it is Dismal.  You won't find the Snake River at Wildhorse. 

Again, I was just looking to hear from someone who may have attended the opening day festivities and played.
Nonetheless, that is also what makes this site intersting. 

As for the Ocean views at the Prairie Club, well you have to look a long way, but when you are on #7 tee of the Lehman Course, take a look around and see if there isn't an ocean of dunes in the area.


Chris & Tom

[Jason Hines]

I think the PC has found a niche in the market and has nothing to do with Bandon.  A venue such as PC will get lots of public play from 1 time per year visitors and if they do go all private, I don’t think people are done building courses in the region.  I played Wild Horse last week and am always interested in all the different license plates in the parking lot.  Wild Horse is a tremendous asset to Nebraska and the local community for the quality of golf and stands as a symbol of local pride for being physically built by the members.

I also commend the Prairie Club for not over doing the “touch of Ireland/Scotland” for their marketing campaign.  I am originally from central Nebraska and IMHO the golf, people and landscape of the Nebraska Sand Hills stands on it’s own.  I am looking forward to my trip their in September and cannot wait to see photos and hear commentary on how the course plays.

[Jud_T]

What I want to know is are they moving ahead with the fourth course and who's the GCA?

[Adam Clayman]

Jud, Perhaps you missed it, but they did announce plans to go ahead with the 4th course using Dr. Trimble's original design team, with most of it, being the original routing. (Ok big assumption on my part) with only the originally designed 18th hole affected, because it is currently part of the Horse Course.

[Eric Smith]

Here's the announcement from back in March:

http://www.golfcourseindustry.com/gci-0319120-prairie-club-gil-hanse-old-school.aspx

[Matt Waterbury]

Wow. 44 responses, and still nobody has actually addressed the original request.

Can I try one more time: has anyone played the course(s) yet? How was it?

Thanks,
Matt

[Adam Clayman]

Matt, I suppose it's my responsibility to get there and report. I've been too busy, but, If I miss out on a round Tuesday at SH, I may just head up and then I will report back.

[Ron Farris]

OK, this really doesn't count, but I watched Tom Lehman hit a few shots with a six iron on hole #3 approach shot.  Keep in mind that we were working on grooming some bunkers on the right side of the fairway at the time.  Tom hit three shots - green center, green back right, green way back left.  The divot on each shot was the size of a silver dollar.  I hit a couple shots on #7, a downhill par three.  My rescue club failed to clear the bunkers on the left due to the 30 mph wind, a very fun shot.  Keep in mind that this was a year before the PC opened.  At least we now have some reference to golf playability at the Prairie Club.


Cell phone pictures sorry for quality.

[Greg Ohlendorf]

I will be at the Prairie Club later this week and will try to post some notes/photos after. Dave Lockhart who did the Flossmoor video was just out there last week and said it was amazing.

Greg

[Dan Herrmann]

How many courses do they have?  Their website isn't clear.